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f. The Guides' Wall (Madame G's)
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Friends and Lovers 

YDS: 5.9 French: 5c Ewbanks: 17 UIAA: VI ZA: 17 British: HVS 5a PG13

Type:  Trad, 3 pitches, 230'
Consensus:  YDS: 5.9 French: 5c Ewbanks: 17 UIAA: VI ZA: 17 British: HVS 5a [details]
FA: Ron Sacks, Anne Dubats, Mike Sawicky, Rick Cronk 1978
Page Views: 2,129
Submitted By: Guy H. on May 4, 2006

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (45)
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Tiffany on Friends and Lovers

Seasonal Raptor Closure from Moondance to After the Prick MORE INFO >>>


Swain gives this climb a 'R' rating for the first pitch. I found enough gear to make this a reasonable lead.

Use the same access trail as for Minty. This is about a 9-min. walk from the Uberfall, or a 5-min. walk from where the East Trapps Connector Trail meets the carriage road. At the cliff, walk 35' left of Minty to the start of the route.

Start about 15'-20' right of Snooky's Return below some shallow right-facing corners.

P1: Head up into the right-facing corner above. The first crux comes at a weird move near an overlap. Place gear often in this area, since the gear is a little on the shallow and thin side. A 2nd crux comes at a committing smear and high step move (greasy feet). A #2 ballnut is useful for the final face, before the traverse left to the Snooky's Return bolt anchors. A fun pitch. 5.9, 100'.

P2/P3: Move the belay left about 30'. Climb the large left-facing dihedral to the top. (5.5)

Rappel over Snooky's Return.


Located 20' right of Snooky's Return and 35' left of Minty.


Standard Rack, with extra thin gear...

Photos of Friends and Lovers Slideshow Add Photo
At the first crux on P1...
At the first crux on P1...
End of the Friends and Lovers' first pitch.
End of the Friends and Lovers' first pitch.
Jim at the crux
Jim at the crux

Comments on Friends and Lovers Add Comment
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By Tim Schafstall
From: Newark, DE
Apr 2, 2008

Super first pitch, but this climb stays wet longer than any other in the Gunks (even Hawk) due to a persistent drip about 15-20 feet up.
Lowe Balls helpful on this one.
By losbill
Nov 14, 2010
rating: 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a

Minty P2 and Snooky's Return P3 trees are dead and webbing and rings are no longer on them. Top and take short walk climber's right to Madame G's rap.
By rogerbenton
Apr 14, 2013
rating: 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a PG13

I'm giving the first pitch a PG-13: there is gear enough to keep you off the deck but there are definitely ugly falls possible, and on less than stellar placements.

Fun pitch, great face climbing.
By David Stowe
Apr 27, 2013

I'm not sure what gear you were using, but for me every placement on the first pitch is rock solid gear. There are no iffy placements on this pitch and there is no specialty gear needed. For some reason this pitch got an R in the old Swain guide. This pitch is PG and only because of the crux, which requires that you make a move or two with your feet over the gear. Other than that you are dong beautiful aesthetic face moves on good gear.
By Alex Charmoz
From: Fairfield, CT
Oct 13, 2013

I guess I can see an argument that this climb is PG-13, but the falls would all be clean. Fun and sketchy crux move (the greasy foot one) above gear. Plug smart and don't worry about it.
By rogerbenton
Nov 14, 2013
rating: 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a PG13

FWIW, Grey Dick calls it PG but also calls out ballnutz for crux pro.
By Paul NotPaul
From: New York, New York
Oct 6, 2014

On October 2014 my buddy took a fall from right above the first crux on a cam placed under the first slight overhang. The fall had him slam into the sloped face about 10 feet below the overhang. He slammed on his foot and his ankle puffed up big time. He couldn't walk and the day ended with a trip on the back of a mohonk pickup. Orthopedist visits are next.

5.9 R
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