This accident sucks, but I feel inclined to share with everyone that some of my favorite and most reliable climbing partners, I have met through MP.com or gym partner match up boards.
Don't let one accident sour your taste for climbing with new people. But do take it as a reminder to make sure new partners know what they're doing. Also, when I reach the top of a climb and yell, "take", I am still holding the belayer's line and supporting my own weight until I know they've got me.
If the circumstances of the fall were different, I'd agree with JLP. But 60 ft? I could tie my dog up to the belay and he'd have a decent chance of catching me in 60 ft. I'm going with 96% belayer, 4% Climber.
I've heard these types of accidents spun many different ways. Contrast this account with Phil Powers' recent one. He never named the belayer, for one. He also didn't sit around blaming other people in the aftermath. My favorite spin is "inadequate rope length" - seen that one a couple times. You're responsible for your own and your partners safety at all times. Like I said, I wouldn't climb with either based on this thread. I think those demanding names are just as clueless.
there a big difference ... that person didnt "lie" (according to the OP) about their experience with a gri gri
there are good honest mistakes ... and there this
if you dont know how to belay or climb, thats fine ... ill show you how and act accordingly
just dont pretend to know how to belay when its something as important as someone elses life
if the name hadnt been posted, you might be climbing with that person tomorrow and be in the same shoes
Actually, the word you are looking for is 'libel' - 'slander' pertains to spoken or heard defamation. In Scott's previous post, the bulk of his statement recounted what he himself experienced on the day in question - climbed up, topped out, leaned back, walked back, fell, evac'd. In the end he provides an opinion as to his personal recommendation about climbing with [edit: person in question]. The 'opinion defense' essentially falls under the rights guaranteed by the First Amendment, and has held stalwartly in court against many a case of far more consequence than this. Personally, I believe Scott is doing us all a great favor by sharing his experience and his recommendation. EDIT: looks like all posts with the person's name are being deleted; as I would like my post to remain in the thread, I'm removing the name.
The factual portion of his post is neither libel nor slander if it's truthful. Both libel and slander must be both defamatory and untruthful to be actionable.
There is definitely more to this story than we know. Generally, when there is a serious accident posted on MP, most people want to know how it happened to prevent it in the future, at least that's what they say.
First and foremost, I am not downplaying the seriousness of the climber's injuries nor am I excusing the belayer. Do I need to repeat that!
A 60 ft free fall will almost certainly result in very serious injury or death. In this case, the climber was able to get himself across the river (tyrolean usually at this area) and ride on the back of a motorcycle. Again, I'm not downplaying the injuries. But, I suspect this was not a free fall. So, here is my theory if you care.
Climber leads up clipping many bolts. The route is long enough and wandery enough that climber and belayer can no longer see or hear each other. Each draw represents a point of friction. The rope rubs on the rock in many places as well. The climber sets up a lowering anchor. Again, more friction. (As we all know, there are times when it is difficult sense the climber when lowering because of friction. Heck, sometimes you practically have to force the rope through your device to lower the climber.) Now, according to the injured climber, he starts to lower himself. This could result in nearly undetectable weight on the rope to the belayer. The climber lowers himself enough to take the slack out of the rope and senses tension. The belayer notices no more slack and thinks the leader need more rope. So, he feed rope at the same moment the climber lets go and fully relies on the rope. Not good!
At 32 ft per second per second, a falling body will fall 60 ft in approx 1.9 seconds. Even with some friction, I suspect this entire event took place in less than 3 or 4 seconds. People, things happen really fast out there. Be careful.
Also, I would like to know if the belay device belonged to the belayer. Sometimes, people prefer their new partner to use a gri gri believing they may be safer somehow. This not necessarily true as evidenced above. When, people offer me their gri gri, I say " No thanks, you will get a better and safer belay with my using an atc since I have been using it for 18 years."
I do wish the injured a speedy recovery. And I do hope he can find a way to forgive and move on. Many of us know people that have been dropped or that have dropped someone. Unfortunately, this happens way too often. But, usually, the outcome is much worse. Hopefully, we can all learn something from this incident.
Pretty sure the dude who got hurt thought about all aspects of releasing the name, as was stated in his post subsequently. That's plenty enough for me to offer a BIG thank you. Just imagine if he said nothing and someone from MP.com was killed... all you folks questioning the releasing of this dude's name would feel pretty stupid.
I see it as hurt feelings vs. someone's life. The choice is clear IMO. If he releases the name and the dude has trouble finding partners well that seems appropriate after DROPPING SOMEONE and sending them to the hospital, is it not?
"jaseym01 1 week ago My only hope is that Search and Rescue confiscated all of the climbing gear from this party so that they won't be able to put anyone at risk again. Not only did they disregard the approaching severe weather but were unable to figure out how to descend less than 2 pitches without assistance and in so doing endangered the lives of the rescue team. Then to top it all off they made a snappy little video glorifying the escapade. Please do us all a favor and take up a sport like frisbee golf."
FWIW, Without digging or going over to the wasteland that was once rockclimbing.com, there is something vaguely familiar about the name M(redacted) Y(redacted). A user over there by the same name. Maybe all in one word or first, period, last name. I can't recall. I have not logged onto the knob since 2009, so if I remember him from that, well, at least we know he's been climbing for at least 4 years. Also, he was most likely a n00b that needed a ruthless keyboard beatdown, why else would he be on the knob?
I think you may be thinking of David Yount. He used to post a little over on rc.com, back when it was a real site. He's a very competent and safe climber. I've partnered with him several times, and would recommend him to anyone.
Who ascertained this was the malfunction? This guy? He had to be severely concussed so his ability to undertake any evaluation of what happened was pretty minimal at the time or even later. Likely the " belayer" didn't even understand what he had done... Even if the guy had the lever down on a Grigri 2 a rapid lower not a free- fall would ensue ( see video below).
I dunno the dif between a gri-gri 1 and 2 (haven't touched either in years) But I will tell you that you absolutely CAN get dropped by someone holding in the lever on a gri-gri becuase it happened to me and the first thing I did was check the still-threaded device. My partner had held the brake rope over the lever... and I got dropped. I suspect that was a grigri 1 being that it was 10+ years ago.