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By Scott Jones
From boulder, co
Aug 5, 2013
-
Thanks again for all the good wishes everyone, i can tell there's some good juju coming my way.

I'm really happy that this post hasn't turned into a witch hunt and instead serves as a good PSA.

I
Erik W wrote:
Man, Scott, that's insane. Really happy you'll be able to recover from this. As JLP posed above, what would you do different going forward?... in terms of confirming a new internet-matchup's belay skills, verbal communication, processes when not feeling tension on a rope, etc. Any insights would definitely help the community as a whole. Thx, and speedy recovery. Erik


I guess the only advice i could give is not to be afraid to decline a belay from someone who gives you a bad feeling. I see now that a perceived insult can is a much better outcome than a trip to the hospital.

climbnplay wrote:
a couple of questions, though. 1) to me, the logical thing to do - if i have any doubts about a communication with the belayer, would be to go directly into the anchor and then sort it out with the person from there. i would never start lowering myself on the rope because i think the belayer hasn't caught on and i just want to get to the ground. were you in a hurry? 2)was the belayer in a position where you could not hear or see him?


I had doubts the he had taken me at the very tope when i was at the chains, I assumed he couldn't hear me because of roar of the creek. after lowering myself a few feet i mistakenly felt the rope tighten. And no, at that point i couldn't see him. Just for reference here's what the route looks like: route

RobC2 wrote:
Sounds like he had the rope in the Grigri backwards? I always make a visual check of the belayer's set-up to be sure the rope is threaded correctly. Have caught this error a time or two this way...


I'm absolutely positive the grigri was loaded the correct way, i double checked it before setting off.

FLAG
By Guy Keesee
From Moorpark, CA
Aug 5, 2013
Big Boulder, just a bit downhill from Temple of Kali. Alabama Hills, CA.
Scott Jones..... It's good to see you here posting...

live and learn.

FLAG
By Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Aug 5, 2013
...
"Scott Jones..... It's good to see you here posting...

live and learn."
.



BINGO!

FLAG
By Colin Brochard
From San Francisco
Aug 5, 2013
squeakeasy
Anyone else think she was talking about a cam?

FLAG
By turbotime
From CT
Aug 6, 2013
creektrails wrote:
It seems like he meant that nobodys piling on Yount or searching to burn him at the stake. Outing was fair warning and seemed to stay there.

Agreed. And there as been no mention of Michael Yount until now
;)

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By bearbreeder
Aug 6, 2013
and yet MPers are fine with naming someone who cheats them on gear swap ...

gear over life anyday !!!

;)

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By Greg D
From Here
Aug 6, 2013
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W. <br />
JLP wrote:
That's what put you in the hospital. I don't agree with laying 100% of the blame on the belayer, I don't like that you named him here and I think the posts with his name should be removed by an admin. It isn't appropriate. He's not here participating in this thread and has no obligation to defend himself here nor tell his side of the story. Therefore, it's just slander and I think this site should be above it. It's a 40 foot sport route next to the road and you ended up in the hospital, that's all I know. I wouldn't rope up with either of you. I am glad you'll be okay. Good luck with your climbing.


Nobody wants to hear this. But, I do agree with you. We have only heard one side of the story and we don't know all the details. His name should not be listed unless he decides on his own to participate in the public forum. He may have come forward on his own if given some time. But, we will never know now.

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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Aug 6, 2013
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.
Agreed. I didn't really think about it in that context but you're absolutely right. I don't see how this can really be defended (assuming there is a measurable amount of accuracy in Scott's account), but nevertheless there is just one side of the story. I'll withdraw my posts with "the name" in them.

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By Vaughne
Aug 6, 2013
Natalie P. wrote:
...didn't know the difference between slack and take so when Scott said take, the guy just held the gri gri down completely

This is why I like to ask for "tension" instead of saying "take." "Take" and "slack" sound pretty similar.

FLAG
By pfwein
Aug 6, 2013
JLP wrote:
. . . I don't agree with laying 100% of the blame on the belayer, I don't like that you named him here and I think the posts with his name should be removed by an admin. It isn't appropriate. He's not here participating in this thread and has no obligation to defend himself here nor tell his side of the story. Therefore, it's just slander and I think this site should be above it. . . .


It's not slander or anything like that if it's true. If I were involved in something like this, I might think long and hard about how sure I was that any negative comments about someone are in fact true. But if I were to be satisfied that I was almost killed or seriously injured by someone's incompetence after meeting him (or her) on MP, I'd post an account of what happened, including the name, and the chips can fall where they may.

FLAG
By bearbreeder
Aug 6, 2013
JLP wrote:
If you rip someone off in the FS forum, then you are here participating.


how about ebay or craiglist then

or those who add a bolt or two to a climb

much more important than life itself

;)

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By Dylan B.
Aug 6, 2013
Orgasm Direct, Devil's Lake, 5.11a  c. 2008
FWIW, yesterday I sent a PM to Mr. Yount here on mountainproject.com to let him know that he's the topic of this thread. He just joined MP three days ago, so there's no telling how often he checks his messages and whether he got it.

mountainproject.com/u/michael-...

I have no dog in this fight, but I did think that he should at least be given notice that he's been publicly accused.

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By Red
From Arizona
Aug 6, 2013
Cobra Kai
Interesting he joined the MP community right around the time this thread and accident occurred.

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By Dylan B.
Aug 6, 2013
Orgasm Direct, Devil's Lake, 5.11a  c. 2008
Red wrote:
Interesting he joined the MP community right around the time this thread and accident occurred.


I should caveat that I don't know if that profile is really his. It says it's for a Michael Yount from Boulder CO. That meets the description given on this thread. If the profile is real, or if it's for the same Michael Yount, I cannot say.

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By Tom-onator
From This Galaxy
Aug 6, 2013
Tom-onator
D.Buffum wrote:
I should caveat that I don't know if that profile is really his. It says it's for a Michael Yount from Boulder CO. That meets the description given on this thread. If the profile is real, or if it's for the same Michael Yount, I cannot say.


He Is just a fucktard that joined up answering a gal's post about being new and looking for partners. Posted a picture of his belay technique (sick fucker).
The admins deleted his posts in the thread fairly quickly.

No way it could be the real M.Y.

Probably A Trollenor manifestation.

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By Abram Herman
From Golden, CO
Aug 6, 2013
Viking helmet cover, yep.
He's easy to find on Facebook, if you actually wanted to contact him. (I don't know him, I just have a Google habit)

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By Dylan B.
Aug 6, 2013
Orgasm Direct, Devil's Lake, 5.11a  c. 2008
Abram Herman wrote:
He's easy to find on Facebook, if you actually wanted to contact him. (I don't know him, I just have a Google habit)


One of the fundamental tenets of our notion of justice is that the accused must be notified of the charge against him before a prosecution can proceed. Our legal system puts the burden on the plaintiff to provide notice, not on the court or anyone else.

In other words, "not my problem."

FLAG
By creektrails
Aug 6, 2013
JLP wrote:
I don't agree with laying 100% of the blame on the belayer,



Would you agree with....say 96%?

FLAG
By Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Aug 7, 2013
...
sltrib.com/outdoors/ci_2389243

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By Christopher Sharma
Aug 7, 2013
ME
As an experienced rock climber, I can tell you that he should not have dropped you from the top of the climb. I most often encourage my climbing partners to take the rope tight when I reach the top of a rock climb. When your belayer gives you undesired slack, you might consider communicating something to the extent of "NO MAS! NO MAS!".

FLAG
By Erik W
From Bay Area, CA
Aug 8, 2013
North face of Ama Dablam - taken on approach to Kongma La.
JLP wrote:
... I don't like that you named him here and I think the posts with his name should be removed by an admin. It isn't appropriate. He's not here participating in this thread and has no obligation to defend himself here nor tell his side of the story. Therefore, it's just slander...


Actually, the word you are looking for is 'libel' - 'slander' pertains to spoken or heard defamation.

In Scott's previous post, the bulk of his statement recounted what he himself experienced on the day in question - climbed up, topped out, leaned back, walked back, fell, evac'd. In the end he provides an opinion as to his personal recommendation about climbing with [edit: person in question]. The 'opinion defense' essentially falls under the rights guaranteed by the First Amendment, and has held stalwartly in court against many a case of far more consequence than this.

Personally, I believe Scott is doing us all a great favor by sharing his experience and his recommendation.

EDIT: looks like all posts with the person's name are being deleted; as I would like my post to remain in the thread, I'm removing the name.

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By Tyler Tylerson
From The Swamp
Aug 8, 2013
facebook.com/michael.yount.39

Looks like he's a typical hippy dippy pothead.

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By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Aug 8, 2013
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV
This accident sucks, but I feel inclined to share with everyone that some of my favorite and most reliable climbing partners, I have met through MP.com or gym partner match up boards.

Don't let one accident sour your taste for climbing with new people. But do take it as a reminder to make sure new partners know what they're doing. Also, when I reach the top of a climb and yell, "take", I am still holding the belayer's line and supporting my own weight until I know they've got me.

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By Donald Kerabatsos
Aug 8, 2013
If the circumstances of the fall were different, I'd agree with JLP. But 60 ft? I could tie my dog up to the belay and he'd have a decent chance of catching me in 60 ft. I'm going with 96% belayer, 4% Climber.

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By bearbreeder
Aug 8, 2013
JLP wrote:
I've heard these types of accidents spun many different ways. Contrast this account with Phil Powers' recent one. He never named the belayer, for one. He also didn't sit around blaming other people in the aftermath. My favorite spin is "inadequate rope length" - seen that one a couple times. You're responsible for your own and your partners safety at all times. Like I said, I wouldn't climb with either based on this thread. I think those demanding names are just as clueless.



there a big difference ... that person didnt "lie" (according to the OP) about their experience with a gri gri

there are good honest mistakes ... and there this

if you dont know how to belay or climb, thats fine ... ill show you how and act accordingly

just dont pretend to know how to belay when its something as important as someone elses life

if the name hadnt been posted, you might be climbing with that person tomorrow and be in the same shoes

;)

FLAG


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