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Freebie Bolts..safe?
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By Rock Cricket
From Norfolk, CT
Feb 24, 2013
Logo

So my buddy gave me some freebie bolts and before messing with them I wanted to know if they were legit. He bought a box at a hardware store, so it made me question their quality in a climbing application. He also gave me some Fixe hangers, I believe they're stainless steel. I don't know if the bolts are also stainless. I know you shouldn't mix stainless with plated, so this is another question I'm looking to get answered. Any info anyone could give me would be greatly appreciated.

ALSO, they'd be placed in super solid granitic gneiss. If placed at all.

Hanger and bolt.  The stamp on the hanger reads "FIXE 038D-10 30-KN INOX".  There are no stamp on the bolts.
Hanger and bolt. The stamp on the hanger reads "FIXE 038D-10 30-KN INOX". There are no stamp on the bolts.


Box of bolts.
Box of bolts.


Box of bolts.
Box of bolts.


Box of bolts.
Box of bolts.


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By Rock Cricket
From Norfolk, CT
Feb 24, 2013
Logo

I just googled "Red Head WS-3836", which was printed on the box label. It bought me to this link www.drillspot.com/products/44321/Red_Head_WS-3836_Wedge_Anch>>> that said they were carbon steel. So a no go on mixing these bolts and hangers?


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By frankstoneline
Feb 24, 2013

Edited:
I was wrong, thinking of something else. Redheads are listed in the "acceptable" category here:
www.safeclimbing.org/education/mechbolts.htm


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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Feb 24, 2013
El Chorro

Typically people don't buy climbing equipment at hardware stores. There are climbing applications for such bolts, but anyone who is qualified to use them wouldn't have to ask on the internet.


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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Feb 24, 2013
Stabby

You should get stainless bolts to go with those hangers. Those Redheads are what we call plated steel (zinc).
Redheads have been used by climbers thousands of times, but IMO are the bottom rung of bolts. You are already ahead a couple bucks per unit with free hangers, get some nice stainless Hilti Kwick bolts, stainless Powers 5 pc., or a good glue in.


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By Rob Dillon
Feb 24, 2013

What Mike said.


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By J. Albers
From Colorado
Feb 24, 2013
Bucky

Mike Lane wrote:
You should get stainless bolts to go with those hangers. Those Redheads are what we call plated steel (zinc). Redheads have been used by climbers thousands of times, but IMO are the bottom rung of bolts. You are already ahead a couple bucks per unit with free hangers, get some nice stainless Hilti Kwick bolts, stainless Powers 5 pc., or a good glue in.


Mike is right. Get stainless steel bolts to match with those hangers. If you are worried about price, then go to the website I listed below. They carry stainless wedge bolts for between $1.25-1.65 a bolt (it depends on what they are carrying at the moment...it varies between Hilti, Powers, etc., but always quality hardware). As Mike said, you already have good hangers for free, it seems trivial to drop ~$1.50 per bolt for bomber hardware.

rapbolting.com/


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By FooDawg
From New Haven, CT
Feb 24, 2013

LOL, they weren't bought througha hardware store, they were bought through a bolting gear supplier (think gearx maybe) few years ago, same with the hangers....


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By J. Albers
From Colorado
Feb 24, 2013
Bucky

FooDawg wrote:
LOL, they weren't bought througha hardware store, they were bought through a bolting gear supplier (think gearx maybe) few years ago, same with the hangers....


This doesn't change the fact that he has SS hangers and plated bolts.

Buy new bolts Cricket.


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By JCM
From Henderson, NV
Feb 24, 2013

Since Rock Cricket is posting from CT, does the type of bolts used matter much? Ken Nichols will probably chop them by mid-summer anyway.

If the stainless bolts also come with a special Ken-proof coating, then you are in business.


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By FooDawg
From New Haven, CT
Feb 24, 2013

JCM wrote:
Since Rock Cricket is posting from CT, does the type of bolts used matter much? Ken Nichols will probably chop them by mid-summer anyway. If the stainless bolts also come with a special Ken-proof coating, then you are in business.


Lolol, check out the new Rock and Ice for an article on what's up these days around here. Just saw it yesterday myself...


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By Rock Cricket
From Norfolk, CT
Feb 24, 2013
Logo

Thanks for the good suggestions. When it comes time to put some in I'll definitely go pick up some stainless.

And as for Ken. That old bolt chopping bastard doesn't know the spots I'm heading to.


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By 20 kN
From Hawaii
Feb 24, 2013

Meh, they are Red Heads. They are okay, but better bolts exist. Anyway, if you have to ask this type of stuff on the net you need more experience and knowledge before bolting. Get with a local expert in your area.


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By Kirk B.
From Boise, ID
Feb 24, 2013
belay slaving on some route I forgot the name of way right of Bloody Fingers.

I concur with several above posters. There are better bolts.


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By Rock Cricket
From Norfolk, CT
Feb 25, 2013
Logo

I have already talked to an experienced bolter that I know and if I'm lucky he'll mentor me for a bit. Also, I have placed practice bolts in smaller rocks before. Don't worry, I'm not going out there willy nilly bolting shit without experience. Aside from researching all of the legit info on bolting (ASCA, Camp4, etc.), why not ask opinions of experienced individuals online. People have to start somewhere right? As I'm sure some of you did. I am simply asking because I haven't heard of the bolts before. Yes, I could have googled them - and did, but I wanted to get some consensus, if there was some to be had.

Thanks for all the good advice,
Ryan


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By J. Albers
From Colorado
Feb 26, 2013
Bucky

Agreed Ryan. Asking questions online is no big deal...more information always helps. Good luck.


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By Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Apr 22, 2013
...

Those bolts are fine so long as they are matched with the correct hanger and used in the correct environment (i.e. Desert and the likes. Not wet or salty conditions.).

As far as the stuff you have?

SS to SS unless you're looking for a reaction.


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By Brian in SLC
Apr 22, 2013
Climbing in Smuggler's Notch

See if your bolts stick to a magnet. The hangers will have a very mild attraction as a comparison (they're 300 series stainless). If the bolts are plated steel (and I suspect they are), they'll stick to a magnet.

Especially in the east in the U.S., I'd bump up to stainless for sure. Its just too wet to consider otherwise.

Not sure I've ever seen galvanic corrosion from disimilar metals used as a climbing anchor, ie, a stainless hanger and non-stainless bolt, but, if it did occur, the bolt would be the item sacrificied and the damage probably wouldn't be visible (except maybe rust streaks).

Stainless versus non-stainless...here's the difference from Stone Mountain in North Carolina...:

Stone Mountain, NC
Stone Mountain, NC


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By Syd
May 21, 2013

Rock Cricket wrote:
ALSO, they'd be placed in super solid granitic gneiss.


Never consider them for sandstone ... re the death on Bunny Buckets.


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By tenesmus
May 21, 2013

Brian in SLC wrote:
See if your bolts stick to a magnet. The hangers will have a very mild attraction as a comparison (they're 300 series stainless). If the bolts are plated steel (and I suspect they are), they'll stick to a magnet. Especially in the east in the U.S., I'd bump up to stainless for sure. Its just too wet to consider otherwise. Not sure I've ever seen galvanic corrosion from disimilar metals used as a climbing anchor, ie, a stainless hanger and non-stainless bolt, but, if it did occur, the bolt would be the item sacrificied and the damage probably wouldn't be visible (except maybe rust streaks). Stainless versus non-stainless...here's the difference from Stone Mountain in North Carolina...:

That's a great post Brian.


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By tenesmus
May 21, 2013

Why doesn't climbtech make 3/8" removable bolts?


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By Mike McHugh
May 21, 2013

Please, please, please consider a bolt that can feasibly be removed at some point in the future, like a Rawl (Powers) 5-piece or Fixe Triplex.

I'd also STRONGLY second the recommendation for stainless. This is what the plate steel sleeves look like after about 25 years (in the relatively arid Colorado foothills). They are a bitch and half to extract:

yeesh
yeesh


Please consider investing in a decent torque wrench, especially if you're going to use stainless.


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By Allen Corneau
From Houston, TX
May 21, 2013

tenesmus wrote:
Why doesn't climbtech make 3/8" removable bolts?


My understanding is that the 3/8" doesn't make it to the 22kN (5,000 lb.) strength required for single-point anchorage.

Totem is planning on making a 10mm version of the RB but I have no idea when it will really hit the streets.


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By Sam Lightner, Jr.
From Lander, WY
May 21, 2013
The Shield

As a group, we should shun the non stainless steel bolt. They will have to be replaced fairly soon. Will they work for you, yes. But 20 years from now you will know that your route/routes need to be fixed. Its best to just spend the money and do it right now. The ASCA is having to replace non stainless bolts on the ege of the Mojave desert, and I know that a dry environment (as we define it) means very little. These bolts will rust very fast.... especially in the east.

For what its worth, the EU has adopted standards on bolts. If I recall correctly, the must be at least 10mm in diameter (just over 3/8), 80 mm long,('bout 3 inches), but above all... stainless steel. We would be wise to adopt the same standards.


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By Jim Titt
From Germany
May 24, 2013

Sam Lightner, Jr. wrote:
For what its worth, the EU has adopted standards on bolts. If I recall correctly, the must be at least 10mm in diameter (just over 3/8), 80 mm long,('bout 3 inches), but above all... stainless steel. We would be wise to adopt the same standards.


The bolt diameter for EN959 is free but it is the case that because of the strengths of metric threads in stainless steel only a 10mm bolt will pass the 25kN test requirement (normally they hold ca38kN), 8mm which is the next size down won´t quite make it(ca23kN). The minimum embedded length must be 5 times the diameter though the industry standard is to supply 80mm bolts by default. The material choice is free and has been for many years, previously materials were specified but this was dropped as this made the standard into a specification which is contrary tothe idea of standards in the first place.
Stainless is pretty well universal though and you will be severely chastised if you use plated rubbish in most areas, in a lot of places youwill be named and shamed, the bolts will be chopped and your "first ascent" scrubbed from the record.


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