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fraud alert! paid for cams that were traded to someone else
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By mcp
From tallahassee
Feb 11, 2013
MP member (ilclimberken) received my payment for 2 cams on 1-29 i received e-mail that day from him saying he got the money and would ship tomorrow.he did not send the cams, would not responed to any e-mails for 2 weeks.today i find out that he traded them to another member off the same posting. how often dos this happen? dos he remain in good standing with MP?

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By Robbie Brown
From Flagstaff, AZ
Feb 11, 2013
Jumping across the mace gap with a PBR
did he cash the check/cancel the paypal transaction? If not then i don't see a problem... Things can change. I was involved in a similar situation. If he still has your money and you don't have gear your then there is cause for concern.

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By mcp
From tallahassee
Feb 11, 2013
he received the paypal payment of $85(according to paypal he got the money), then on or about the same day traded the cams to another member,i didnot receive the cams he will not responed to my e-mails

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By Dustin Drake
Feb 11, 2013
Did you get your money back?

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By mcp
From tallahassee
Feb 11, 2013
no cams, no money back, no responce to e-mails

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By Calvino
From Bellingham, WA
Feb 11, 2013
getting ready for the final roof series
I have had many sales as a seller and buyer on MP and have not had any problems yet. There doesn't seem to be a system for policing this, beyond what you can do on Paypal. It is dangerous to trust people you don't know, but if the alternative is being afraid, I accept the risk. I hope you find resolution.

ilclimber, take some accountability and make this right

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By Steve Williams
From Denver, CO
Feb 11, 2013
I'd contact Paypal and let them know what happened and
ask for a refund.

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By mcp
From tallahassee
Feb 11, 2013
im new to the forum and new to paypal, i see alot of people ask to send payment as a gift to save the fee ( I PAID A FEE $2.77)and i made that mistake. that being said he confirmed he got the money and then traded the cams to the guy right below me on the posting. paypal confrimed he got the money he confrimed he got it. i might be screwed on the $85 but i'd think foum members would want to know about him

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By RockinOut
From NY, NY
Feb 11, 2013
Gear
Tell your story to paypal...they`ll refund you. Its not like they are losing the fee since you sent it as a gift.

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By Dustin Drake
Feb 11, 2013
If the seller refuses to communicate with you at this point, I would first bump the seller's thread where the cams were being sold and explain the situation. Maybe he isn't getting your pm's or something. Give that a day, then if you don't hear from the seller, go directly to paypal. They can get your money back. The 'gift' option doesn't protect the seller in any way.

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By Jeremy Monahan
From Fort Fun, CO
Feb 11, 2013
View of Longs Peak from Mt. Alice, RMNP
I believe the member is actually ilclimberken, and mcp is referring to this thread:
mountainproject.com/v/fsft-bd-...

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By mcp
From tallahassee
Feb 11, 2013
yes it is(ilcimberken) i bump the posting today, i talk to the guy offering to trade the mastercams in the posting and found ilclimberken traded the c4s, i paid for to him, he also confirmed ilclimberkens name,kenneth spurling the same name on my paypal transaction

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By Jon H
From Boulder
Feb 11, 2013
At the matching crux
Just a heads up - you will NOT get anything back from Paypal. Gift payments have no buyer protection. They will just tell you to piss off.

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By David prsn
From Tustin
Feb 11, 2013
Temple crag, dark star
Or you could have the mods track his ip, track down where he lives and beat him up.?

Sounds bad ass at least.

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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Feb 11, 2013
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Peak.
This is your guy:



I may be going out on a limb here, but he doesn't look real organized.

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By mcp
From tallahassee
Feb 11, 2013
that is ilclimberken (kenneth spurling), i checked out his profile befor dealing with him, a member sence 2009 ,i thought he would be solid, my mistake

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By Andrew Mayer
Feb 11, 2013
top of mt. lady washington - rmnp
Damn dude that sucks. And Jon is right, sending money as a "gift" gives the buyer no protection (which I have done multiple times on here as both a buyer and asked people to do that when selling to save me the fee and I have never had a problem).

Hope you somehow get your money back.

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By Jason N.
From Grand Junction
Feb 11, 2013
Indy pass
That sucks. One thing to consider, due to the nature of some people's lines of work or climbing trips its not that uncommon for someone to be out of pocket for extended periods of time. Maybe that's what happened. Hope it works out.

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By Javier L
From Asheville, NC
Feb 11, 2013
Bermuda, DWS
can't you get his ip address and location info just using his e-mail address?

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By John D
Feb 12, 2013
I'm pretty sure it's Ice climbing season in canada...

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By mcp
From tallahassee
Feb 12, 2013
the other member responding to the FS posting and offering to trade , J byerley did resond to my e-mail asking if there was a trade( thanks too J) and confirmed the trade with ilclimberkens and ilclimberkens name as kenneth spurling, the same name, kenneth spurling as on my paypal record for $85 on 1-29

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By JMo
From Tucson, AZ
Feb 12, 2013
vertebrae roof
JLP wrote:
Maybe he couldn't figure out what the fuck you were trying to say.

+1

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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Feb 12, 2013
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.
John Marsella wrote:
I think that IP-to-location tracking only works with static IPs (as dynamic IPs resolve to the carrier, like comcast or whatever) otherwise you have to be a CIA agent -or a court order- to get that specific location??


That's part of it. I'm not sure about the court order, maybe a warrant? Idk, in any case, it's probably dictated state by state. The other problem is that every ISP I know of, including Cox, Comcast, and all the big ones use Network Address Translation. This means that if you're able to acquire an IP address, it will most likely be the proxy of the ISP, not the actual client IP of the machine the email was sent from. And as you mentioned John, the IP address changes via DHCP for however often the lease is set for. The default is seven days or some shit like that.

So, to be clear (nothing about what mcp posts is concise), the seller, iclimberken offered cams for sale, mcp sent money as a gift through paypal, the money was actually received and mcp's account was physically subtracted that amount, then iclimberken didn't send the cams that were paid for and instead traded them for a couple mastercams? Is that what transpired? If so, that's fucked up. iclimberken should have his shit pushed in by vagrants if that's the case.

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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Feb 12, 2013
Stoked...
Fool me once shame on you... you know how the rest goes right?

Well just in case, Fool me twice shame on me.

I don't know why anyone would send money to a stranger on the internet as a gift without protection... to what, save a dollar or two? Pretty sure the first $500 on paypal/per month is fee free or something so that really doesn't make sense unless ur doing a lot of business on paypal (AND IF YOU ARE THEN U SHOULD KNOW BETTER).

And if a stranger requested you send the money without buyer protection so it saves them money and you complied, well I've got a great set of cams to sell you too - you can wire $125 to my local western union, right?

Since you've figured out the guys name - can you can probably figure out where he lives. If you're not just all talk go ahead and call the police and file criminal charges against Kenneth. That will get his attention...

I'm pretty sure you just file with your local police department...

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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Feb 12, 2013
El Chorro
Pretty much every post he's made since November has been in the Classifieds. I don't think a guy buying and selling that much gear without problems would just decide to rip someone off. He's been a member of this site for years - he must know that he could never get away w/ taking someones money.

Hope you get your money back.

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By Chris treggE
Administrator
From Madison, WI
Feb 12, 2013
Egghead
I am not a frequent PayPaler. Why would someone choose "gift" when they are buying a "good"? Avoiding some fee?

And if you choose "goods" you are protected by PayPal then if the transaction fails?

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