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Force generated by funkness device

Original Post
Amazing Larry · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 35

So I was cleaning a stopper (BD #4, 4Kn?) and it refused to come out the way I slotted it in. Ultimately I whipped out the hammer and funkness and started whaling on it. With two jerks it came out in the anticipated direction of pull and the stopper has gouges. So experts, what is the typical force generated by these things? The root of my concern is this was a placement I would have set trad climbing and thought "Bomber Duuude!" so I like ot reevaluate my placement strategy if the funkiness proved my stopper sub par.

Greg Barnes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 2,060

It can be very high - it's somewhat common to break a carabiner when funking pitons.

Leeroy · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 0
This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.
Brandon Howard · · Denver, CO · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 25
Leeroy Jenkins wrote:Yet again the Uber n00b BenB to the rescue with another wrong answer! Maybe sooner or later you'll learn to keep your mouth shut until you've got some actual experience.
He seems to be more well suited to answer the question than you. Struttin around violating Rule #1 = troll. Dont ruin a good thread by being rude this ones actually a bit interesting.
DexterRutecki · · Cincinnati, Ohio · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 0
This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.
Amazing Larry · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 35

I funked becuse I thought nut was gona be junk, so funked the junk. Then I thought no one should grab my nut cause ppl get hurt when its junk and no booty was there to swag. So then I thought well lets bust this nut and thats when I realy funked that junk and I busted my nut. I dont think I'm the type with the kung-fu action grip so I asked the experrrrrtttttssssssss.

Edit: I funked in direction of pull to break it.

Leeroy · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 0
Ben B. wrote: What experience do I lack to press keys on a calculator?
Apparently you lack some experience in basic physics. Don't let that get in the way of posting your opinion on anything and everything though.
Tom Hanson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 950

So when did climbers get so politically correct that the name became degraded to "funkness" device?
I haven't seen a correct spelling since the eighties.

Dave Swink · · Boulder, Co · Joined Jun 2007 · Points: 285
Tom Hanson wrote:So when did climbers get so politically correct that the name became degraded to "funkness" device? I haven't seen a correct spelling since the eighties.
Can you clue us to the former name without undergoing guideline #1 disintegration? :-)
Tom Hanson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 950

If memory serves, this contraption was devised by some DLFA affiliates turned wall climbers and DLFA does not signify the Devils Lake Funkness Association.

Peter Zabrok · · Hamilton, ON · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 645

Funkness devices can easily generate forces in excess of 2000 lbs, so be careful!

BD Peckers have a cable rated for a rather miserable thousand pounds or so, so it easy to break them. You should always use a Screamer when using Peckers, too - they don't tell you this.

You have to be really careful when funking out Peckers - take it easy - finesse, not brute strength. Work the whole piton, not just the cable.

Because funkness devices generate such huge forces, you shouldn't use them for testing aid pieces, because you can easily blow out otherwise good placements. A head might hold only 500 lbs or so, plenty good for body weight, but a funkness test would rip that poor little bugger to shreds.

This is why bounce testing is so much better. It is hard to generate more than 800 lbs force in a very aggressive bounce test, which gives you confidence that your piece is good. Whip on a Screamer and it might even hold a fall.

Incidentally, 1 kN is about 220 lbs-force.

Cheers,
Pete

George Zack · · Orting, WA · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 280

I just built a funkness for my hammer and was trying to get an idea of how much force I could generate with it. I attached a small loop of 4mm nylon accessory cord (MBS 3.8 Kn), tied with a double fisherman's, before clipping a bolt at home, to see if I could break the loop. I could not break the loop.
I read a pull-test once that reported the breaking strength of nylon cord tied with a DF to be about 80% of double the MBS for that cord. That would be just over 6 Kn for my setup... Either I am incredibly weak, or the reports of funkness device's breaking biners is the result of some strange loading geometries on them (nose-hooking, etc?). My hammer is a little lighter (24 oz) than the BD Yosemite (25 oz) or OP Wall Hammer (32 oz), however.
Has anyone done a more scientific test to determine how much force can be generated with a funkness?
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Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872

Nylon will stretch. It's acting as a shock absorber in your system, dispersing the energy of the hammer swing over a longer time, thus reducing the peak forces.

Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872

Also matters what the bolt was in in your test. Any motion or give anywhere in your system reduces the peak forces. As the elasticity in the system approaches zero, the peak force will go to infinity.

George Zack · · Orting, WA · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 280
Larry S wrote:Nylon will stretch. It's acting as a shock absorber in your system
That was my fear. I guess a better way to gauge the force would be to use a tiny steel quick-link then. Thanks
Peter Zabrok · · Hamilton, ON · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 645
"Has anyone done a more scientific test to determine how much force can be generated with a funkness?"

Yes, actually.

For my very first Dr. Piton column in Rock & Ice Magazine, my editor Duane Raleigh actually went out with a dynomometer [sp?] and did some tests, funking vs. bounce testing.

A good hard bounce-test could generate eight hundred to a thousand pounds, depending on how hard you crash, and how much of a lard-ass you are.

Funking could easily create over two thousand pounds! Hence the reason you rarely funk test aid pieces, with the possible exception of a dodgy hook on a traverse far off to the side of you. Even so, I would still rather slink down, across, and up.

Dr. Piton Big Wall Tip of the Day:

When getting onto a scary not-so-good hook, gently tap on the top of the hook with your hammer as you slowly begin to weight it, to cause the metal to flex into the position it will be in when you fully weight it. This will avoid that somewhat terrifying sensation [and sound!] of the hook flexing and scratching as you get onto it. I call this "Dave Turner-ing" a hook, as I learned the tip indirectly from him.

Certain purists will complain that this may enhance a hook placement, especially if you have sharpened all your hooks like I have.

And to this I say ...

....zzzzzzzz
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Big Wall and Aid Climbing
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