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fixed ropes in NC for projecting routes
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By 5.samadhi
Aug 11, 2013
me
what is the general attitude toward fixing ropes on hard sport or trad lines around NC. Is it looked down on or is it something that is a-OK at crags. Sometimes I think I'd rather not punish my partners belaying me (read holding me while I "catch my breath") on some hard sport climb around the area and rather just TR solo it while I'm working it getting ready for the redpoint (after having given up going for the groundup onsight attempt and thoroughly entrenched in projecting mode). For the sake of the discussion lets assume we're talking about a route very much out of the mainstream paths (at small lesser known crags).

Also for the sake of discussion lets say the rope would be up for 5-7 days (enough time to span enough sessions with rest that one could actually make substantial progress on their project).

Is this a despicable practice? Is somebody gonna throw my rope down in the mud? :D

Just curious,
samadhi

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By Tyler Tylerson
From The Swamp
Aug 11, 2013
Depends what level you are climbing at, but I'd say most would call it booty.

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By Mark Byers
Aug 11, 2013
Profile Pic
Tyler Tylerson wrote:
Depends what level you are climbing at, but I'd say most would call it booty.

Yeah, there might be a few remote areas where a rope would stay in place for a few days but I wouldn't count on it at most crags.

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By Edward Medina
Administrator
From Ridgway, CO
Aug 11, 2013
Unaweep
I don't think I've ever seen a fixed rope on any climb in NC in the past 15 years. Even leaving draws hanging on projects is generally frowned upon. Can't imagine a rope would be left up.

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By 5.samadhi
Aug 11, 2013
me
wow so you think other climbers would steal my rope? Seriously!? That thought didn't even enter my mind. Haha.

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By 5.samadhi
Aug 11, 2013
me
Edward Medina wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen a fixed rope on any climb in NC in the past 15 years. Even leaving draws hanging on projects is generally frowned upon. Can't imagine a rope would be left up.

Thanks for the thoughts. I have climbed about as long as 15 year and I have actually seen quite a few fixed lines though only ever for cleaning new routes, and for aid routes in mid process...just not sport routes.

Would it matter if the routes were originally bolted top down and not ground up?

Thanks for the thoughts everybody, keep them coming if you have a perspective...I honestly never heard the idea discussed (maybe cuz its a stupid idea?).

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By Br'er Rabbit
From The Briar Patch
Aug 12, 2013
'Bred en bawn in a brier-patch, Brer Fox--bred en ...
I've taken down fixed ropes in Alabama, on hard sport, that were left in a pristine area with limited access...a lesser crag. I would do the same if I came upon a fixed line anywhere I frequent in NC. No doubt you are climbing hard, but still.....don't be that guy. I TR solo a lot...typically I find an appropriate route. 'Appropriate' means one you can clean.

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By 5.samadhi
Aug 12, 2013
me
^yeah I agree with your mentality.

Thankfully one of the routes can be accessed by reaching over the edge and clipping/unclipping the anchors...the really hard one I want to practice at least...that would require going up behind the cliff before and after but then I wouldnt be "that guy" :D

That leaves the other route I would like to practice on...but maybe I'll just wait til next year and I can just lead it (or never haha).

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By Br'er Rabbit
From The Briar Patch
Aug 13, 2013
'Bred en bawn in a brier-patch, Brer Fox--bred en ...
5.samadhi wrote:
^yeah I agree with your mentality. Thankfully one of the routes can be accessed by reaching over the edge and clipping/unclipping the anchors...the really hard one I want to practice at least...that would require going up behind the cliff before and after but then I wouldnt be "that guy" :D That leaves the other route I would like to practice on...but maybe I'll just wait til next year and I can just lead it (or never haha).


If it's that easy, why even ask the question...? Spurt climbers that lazy these days?

Patience is a virtue.

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By rock_fencer
From Columbia, SC
Aug 14, 2013
Myself placing a a blue/yellow offset MC to protec...
please dont leave fixed ropes in NC...generally ruins the "natural feel"

I was out in yosemite last month and frankly was appalled at the number of fixed ropes i saw in tuolumne. It's not your rock so practice LNT's. Its really not that hard to put up a line especially working something ground up on bolts

oh and obviously dont leave fixed ropes in state parks...land managers hate that
my 2 cents.
happy climbing

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By 5.samadhi
Aug 14, 2013
me
Br'er Rabbit wrote:
If it's that easy, why even ask the question...? Spurt climbers that lazy these days? Patience is a virtue.

ha troll :P but yeah I clip more cams than bolts fwiw (probably why I suck so much at sport routes).

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By Nick Stayner
From Billings, MT
Aug 14, 2013
Nick Stayner near the crux. Ryan Minton photo.
rock_fencer wrote:
I was out in yosemite last month and frankly was appalled at the number of fixed ropes i saw in tuolumne.


Just out of curiosity, which routes did you see fixed ropes on?

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By Br'er Rabbit
From The Briar Patch
Aug 14, 2013
'Bred en bawn in a brier-patch, Brer Fox--bred en ...
5.samadhi wrote:
ha troll :P


Touche.

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By shannon stegg
Nov 7, 2013
I guess no one remembers the years of fixed ropes on "Rubber Ducky" on the North Face of Looking Glass! Oh, never heard of that climb. it is now called "Glass Menagerie". I must be the only lifer on this site, but it sure is fun!

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By rock_fencer
From Columbia, SC
Nov 7, 2013
Myself placing a a blue/yellow offset MC to protec...
Or most of us have left the 20th century and moved on

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By Br'er Rabbit
From The Briar Patch
Nov 7, 2013
'Bred en bawn in a brier-patch, Brer Fox--bred en ...
Now, now T.
If we compiled everything Shannon has divulged over the years around the campfire, there would exist an expansive and detailed tome on climbing in NC, Tn, Al, Ga, etc. beyond the scope of anything yet put together....heavy on the traditional styles.
It's good that there's representation from those that were there to see it.

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By Chuck Parks
From Atlanta, GA
Nov 7, 2013
Chuck in the final mellow section of Te Dum at the...
shannon stegg wrote:
I guess no one remembers the years of fixed ropes on "Rubber Ducky" on the North Face of Looking Glass! Oh, never heard of that climb. it is now called "Glass Menagerie". I must be the only lifer on this site, but it sure is fun!



Dammit! Now I'm going to have this stuck in my head all day...



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By rock_fencer
From Columbia, SC
Nov 7, 2013
Myself placing a a blue/yellow offset MC to protec...
Br'er Rabbit wrote:
Now, now T. If we compiled everything Shannon has divulged over the years around the campfire, there would exist an expansive and detailed tome on climbing in NC, Tn, Al, Ga, etc. beyond the scope of anything yet put together....heavy on the traditional styles. It's good that there's representation from those that were there to see it.



Ben,

you know i'm just flaming the fire for amusement purposes mostly...i'd like to see all of this history put down on paper and published.


T

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By shannon stegg
Nov 7, 2013
Hey T, I thought you were backing Mr. Shull for that job! Just have not seen him much latley around!

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By rock_fencer
From Columbia, SC
Nov 7, 2013
Myself placing a a blue/yellow offset MC to protec...
shannon stegg wrote:
Hey T, I thought you were backing Mr. Shull for that job! Just have not seen him much latley around!


I just want more information out there and less bickering amongst the various personalities that have helped establish climbing historically and today. Is that too much to ask really? I think constructive conversations are great and historical debate is great fodder for a guidebook intro to an area. I think NC needs a good comprehensive guide book especially with all the newer development and old forgotten routes.

So many people have said they are working on various guides. I'd like to see someone follow through on that.

Edit: Frankly the only person that has truly impressed me with his documentation is Andrew and i appreciate the topo's he's funneled to me over the few years i've known him, even if i cant climb most of the routes.

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By 5.samadhi
Nov 7, 2013
me
Hey Shannon,

was the whole climb called rubber ducky or just the first pitch? I heard the pitch1 was rubber ducky but maybe I was misreading the historical bit when I read that.

Your clarification is needed! thank you!

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By 5.samadhi
Nov 7, 2013
me
I second that I'd like to read more historical pieces on our beloved north side climbs (and other areas I'm just partial to n side since i live 15 minutes away and thats the only climbing other than the Red I like to do).

Come on Shannon!!!

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By Kyle Kimball
From Asheville, NC
Nov 7, 2013
J Clarks
I would be interested to hear more stories about LG, Whitesides and the like- I find it incredible that you guys did these super stout routes without any of the climbing luxuries we have today. There's got to be some good ones.

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By TomCaldwell
From Clemson, S.C.
Nov 8, 2013
Me on One Pitch Wonder at Whitesides.  Photo credi...
A few years ago there was an FMG guy projecting the free variation to the upper pitches of GM. He got flamed on the CCC boards for leaving his draws up overnight. I also know of people cutting ropes down that were left up. If it is a matter of getting stronger to do the climb, beating it to death over a few days isn't the same as just training harder and doing it in less attempts. I feel lucky that I live close enough to places like Stone Summit, where you can just train harder to accomplish your goals rather than doing something that is questionable to local ethics. It is interesting though the difference in mentality of a rope left up for projecting versus one for an FA. You quite often see FA ropes left hanging but without the same kind of grief.

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By jeep gaskin
Nov 9, 2013
where to begin? let's see. there was a bit of one-upmanship involved in the freeing of the 1st pitch of menagerie, rotert and me, begining in the winter of '76. has nothing to do with fixing lines so i'll gloss. jumping ahead to the spring of '79, i started more serious work with tim combs on actually climbing the route. he lead what is now the open book pitch, we called it the white book pitch, and i led to the belay under the roof. we left a rope hanging so we could return to our high point tethered to a bolt and several pieces of gear. soon after i jugged back up and placed a second bolt, retrieved my gear and left the rope hanging. ropes in those days were 150'. the one i left ended in a tree that was then at the base of the climb, maybe 25' off the ground. descending the tree was terrifying for a lowly rock climber. when the route finally went to the top in september of '80 we cut the rope down. some time in the winter of 79-80 i ran into steve longnecker and he told me that someone with the rescue squad out of skyland told him to pass the word that they would not be able to help whoever had left that rope up there if they needed a rescue. we had a good laugh. what all this means for 5.sam i can't say. cheers.

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By 5.samadhi
Nov 9, 2013
me
awesome! Did you guys free the "white book" pitch or was it mostly aid then? Did you free the 11 pitch approaching the roof?

Any other stories!? That was great. A rare treat for MP.

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