First Ascents, should the belayer be included even if they don't climb it?
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I ask because I have a buddy who never includes the belayer/belayers who give him dozens of catches so he can do FA's. Seems kind of egocentric to me since he isn't soloing the routes and would not do the FA without a belayer. I think that if the route gets done without a rope then the climber alone should be listed. |
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Hey Eric, |
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Did the belayer do an ascent? Not usually. What if I have 20 different people belay me on my futuristic proj before the send? Do I list them all? |
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If it's single pitch climbing forget them. If it's a real route where someone else is committing, doing the approach, following (even if jugging) pitches, hauling, working logistics, and the descent then they should be (and usually are included). |
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list them unless they didnt climb it, in that case they are pretty much dead weight. if the belayer was 300lbs and eating twinkies the whole time would they deserve mention? I think not, 5.15 belayer maybe but not a climber |
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I know that when I go out for a day of climbing with someone, even when this includes belaying on the project, the goal for me usually isn't to give up my time in order to belay. I'm climbing on the route or others nearby, too. Belays are traded, not donated (unless it's a rest day and I just want to hang out). Remember, the belayers are (more often than not) partners; it isn't a power relationship with the FAist coercing the belayer. They are two people who want to get out and go climbing. The belayer did not necessarily send the route nor was necessarily heavily involved in its development, and thus shouldn't be automatically given credit. |
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Yes for alpine routes, no for almost everything else. |
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I think it also depends on if you are FAing some abandoned project or going out finding the line, cleaning it, bolting, then sending. As far as Kristina and I go we always list each other with whoever actually sent first listed first. However none of the routes we put up as a partnership would happen if not for both of us. |
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Randy Leavitt, a pretty prolific fa'ist, has some very relevant comments on his enormocast interview, episode 17. (My mind's tellin' me link, but my computer, my computer's tellin' me no.) Worth a listen whether you're interested in this particular topic or not. |
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I have always regarded f/a's as a team event |
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Thanks for the heads up about Randy Leavitt speaking about FAs on the Enormocast Episode 17 at minute 45 into it. enormocast.com/episode-18-r…. |
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I consider it a team event too. I usually list both if the belayer has seconded in some form (preferably cleanly)or at least contributed significantly - leader's name first. If it was just a quick passing belay I might not. |
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FA: Both parties get credit (there's a lot of aided FA's) |
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Hey Allen, I did a three pitch thing last summer and included everyone that helped out over the three days it took to lead the pitches even though the FA bottom to top was me and another guy that did nothing but follow, OH, AND BELAY! |
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1Eric Rhicard wrote:Hey Allen, I did a three pitch thing last summer and included everyone that helped out over the three days it took to lead the pitches even though the FA bottom to top was me and another guy that did nothing but follow, OH, AND BELAY! The other folks belayed me as I lead it ground up hooking and drilling and getting sketched out. So I guess I don't list the FA. I list the FAT, as in team.How inclusive of you. My belief is that you and the guy that did it ground-up got the FA...though he should be slightly embarrassed when telling people if he didn't swing a lead. |
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You can't have a fart-floatin nose-pickin ball-scratchin dog-lickin rope snaggin bong spillin slob-son-of-a bee-layer and still crush. |
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Wow, I'm really surprised at these responses. |
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Give credit to the sapient responsible for your safety. Otherwise you're just a solipsistic poseur. |
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Crap, Greg said almost the same thing. |
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Maybe the pros should start recording FA's like this too... |
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I name my first ascents after my belayer. Give him big time credit. Make sure his/her name is in the guide book. |