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By Robin Leopold
From Denver, CO
Feb 25, 2010

The best part is: if you purchased the weapon you're carrying into RoMo on a credit card, and don't pay it off right away, the bank can't raise the APR on it!


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By J mac
Feb 25, 2010
Zermatt

Red wrote:
In case of a random wild animal attacking you would be one reason. One species, bears, will eat people if they don't get enough food elsewhere. Believe it or not, people actually had to hunt for food at one point in time before supermarkets ruled the country. A lot of people still do hunt. This is just two easy reasons. I could list many more but don't want to waste the time.



At one point in time people also hunted without a gun. I will feel less comfortable knowing people have guns. Red necks are much scarier than a bear.


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By flatlander605
From Salt Lake City, UT
Feb 25, 2010
Me

I was actually considering a small handgun for my upcoming car camping trip...but quickly dismissed it because I'm not about to be the one that introduces a weapon that is later used on ME!!!


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By Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi?
From Vegas
Feb 25, 2010
Growing a winter coat in Red Rock Canyon- December 2013.

jmeizis wrote:
Hell, I own a gun and don't consider carrying it around with me because I don't exhibit the constant fear of murder and molestation that the vast majority of the public does.


Lucky, you! I'm jealous (I really am!) Colorado Springs, and the areas you travel must be really safe, and nice; free of the element. : )

jmeizis wrote:
It'd be a lot more fair if nobody owned guns, keep the playing field level. Too bad that ship has sailed.


Would never happen, only the bad guys would have them then. imagine, that. ; /

jmeizis wrote:
My fear is that the reckless jackasses who some how are allowed to possess guns; the same ones who shoot up NFS signs and throw their McDonald's wrappers out their RV window, the Winnebago Warriors, and the motorized mutton heads, feeling vindicated as they do to tote around their newly legalized erectile substitute will get so excited playing with each other's Boom Sticks that they might just lose control have a little accident.


Yeah, I hear ya; I've bumped into them when out in remote areas; especially in the Nevada, and California desert. I'm sure accidents can happen, as sexual assaults, robberies, and murders do.

jmeizis wrote:
...You know shoot an "intruder" who walked through their campsite, be it a furry critter, or just one needing to take a piss. The mind plays funny tricks on people. If you're not going for a confrontation then why bring something confrontational with you? If you're so afraid of the things in nature then why go there at all?


Many people that carry a gun legally, don't have a history of mental ilness, or felonies, or a domestic violence charge, and hopefully won't be quick on the trigger, but again, I hear ya.

jmeizis wrote:
GiGi, to answer your question I wouldn't encourage my girlfriend, sister, or mother to carry a gun or any other particular weapon. There are lots of things that can be used as weapons. If a gun gives you a sense of security then I feel badly that males have given you such a sense of insecurity, I'm not in charge of them so I can't do anything about that. I'd argue that the sense of security one gets with a gun or any other weapon is false. Just because you've got one doesn't mean you'll get to use it or be willing to use it.


I respect everyones' opinion, and rights here. As far as you calling me insecure; there may be some truth to that. I have never been personally harmed by a man in my life; except a few physical fights with boys when I was a kid; nothing serious. I guess I've been lucky; even men who were known to be bad towards women have somehow been protective over me in my crazy past, till now. Now women, that's another story! Most of the emotional, and physical abuse I had suffered, and my sense of self damaged was by women; but that was during my childhood, and I have, and have had many great female friends/mentors that have helped me trust the female gender now.

That being said; I have had a gun pulled on me twice, by a stranger (a man each time), but, I didn't take it personally- I was at the wrong place at the wrong time, and with other people during incident-not alone), BUT, I have witnessed a lot of violence from early childhood till now, and did witness, as a young teen, my best friend being raped up in the mountains by her ex-boyfriend while three of his friends held me back as I screamed. AND, I have been exposed to many murderers, rapists, and criminals, and dangerous psychotic people who have done some really terrible things (not everything makes the papers, and many crimes go unreported), and have been friends with quite a few correctional officers, and have spoken to cops, and many psychiatrists (no, I wasn't their client- not yet, anyway), grew up in not so nice areas in LA, and live in Vegas, and the majority of my friends happen to be street wise; from LA, to the south, to Chicago, and rough areas in New York, and sometimes we get to talking, SO, maybe that's my problem, and where the paranoia stems from? ; ) I dunno; maybe if my life experiences were different; like some lucky to have a stable home, little, or no exposure to violence, and living in nice small towns, or friendlier big cities, I'd feel safer, and trust people more. Who knows?

TEA, and Tradster, thanks bros! : )


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By Tradster
From Phoenix, AZ
Feb 25, 2010

flatlander605 wrote:
I was actually considering a small handgun for my upcoming car camping trip...but quickly dismissed it because I'm not about to be the one that introduces a weapon that is later used on ME!!!


I can understand where you are coming from with this point of view. Just because you carry a piece doesn't mean things will necessarily turn out in your favor. I hear you on that one.


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By Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi?
From Vegas
Feb 25, 2010
Growing a winter coat in Red Rock Canyon- December 2013.

EDIT: We don't always carry a gun; only in areas where I feel uncomfortable not packing (like remote areas in the NV., and California desert). I just thought I'd better clear that up before the anti-gunnies (in National Parks) get a visual, and all.



Ahhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! : )


EDIT:

jmeizis wrote:
Just because you've got one doesn't mean you'll get to use it or be willing to use it.


I'd be willing to use it in self defense, and hopefully put up a good fight (I'd pull his god damn eyes out too- I mean male, or female who is attacking me).


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By Tradster
From Phoenix, AZ
Feb 25, 2010

Same here. Down around the Mexican border where the baddies roam; driving across the Cali desert, too.


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By tenpins
Feb 25, 2010

anti-gun? not this Iraq vet. but I do think the "about damn time" comments are ridiculous. In the future when my two daughters are old enough to backpack on their own, I dont think I will worry about them. Yes, they will probably have a shank on them, and the know how to kill someone threatening them, but Ive known hundreds of female backpackers, none of them who carry a pistol, and none of them have ever had a problem. We can all agree that we are more likely to be assaulted in urban and suburban areas, and no, I dont feel it necessary to carry a pistol around town either.


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By Will Butler
From Boulder, CO
Feb 25, 2010
ice park

I've always wanted to go skeet shooting from El Cap Tower. All ethical/environmental considerations aside, the thought of that really makes me smile.


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By Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi?
From Vegas
Feb 25, 2010
Growing a winter coat in Red Rock Canyon- December 2013.

pasto wrote:
anti-gun? We can all agree that we are more likely to be assaulted in urban and suburban areas, and no, I dont feel it necessary to carry a pistol around town either.


True, good point. Maybe creepy characters just stand out to me more in remote areas, than say in a Jack-In-The-Box parking lot where we wouldn't be packing. Possibly because I know I don't have cell coverage, or witnesses in remote areas, and our bodies probably wouldn't be found for days, weeks, months, or years, and the
killer(s) would most likely never be caught; I'll have to think that one out, next time we're thinking about packing on a remote desert excursion. : )


And Tea is right, proper training is the key; practice makes perfect, great point by Laurie too. : )


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By Tea
Feb 25, 2010
just Jong it!

what happened to my post? Strange.

Yes...Laurie's post is great. if you aren't 100% sure you can use a weapon under pressure probably best not to have one.


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By Derek W
Feb 25, 2010
First summit of First Flatiron

I'm not always packing, but going to the more popular "out of the way" type places I'll be more likely to. But anytime anybody is in control of a potentially dangerous object, I pray they have the practice and experience to wield it; just because somebody CAN have it, doesn't mean they SHOULD... just look at 50% of the drivers on the road... eek!


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By Ben Panter
From Little-fun, CO
Feb 25, 2010
Laying it down

Firearms are cool
Firearms are cool


Here is a photo of my firearms.


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By flatlander605
From Salt Lake City, UT
Feb 25, 2010
Me

Tea & Wehling ~

I am TOTALLY one of those people! Even with 9 years in the military I still don't feel comfortable enough to have one strapped to my hip (thankfully I'm in the Air Force :)

I promise I'm a MUCH better driver, though...so at least I won't kill you on your WAY to the park ;)


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By sunder
From Alsip, Il
Feb 25, 2010
ICE PIT 2011

Will Butler wrote:
I've always wanted to go skeet shooting from El Cap Tower. All ethical/environmental considerations aside, the thought of that really makes me smile.


Now this is something i want to see......

2000' up on EL Cap skeet shooting from a portal ledge!!!


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By Evan1984
Feb 25, 2010

Red wrote:
In case of a random wild animal attacking you would be one reason. One species, bears, will eat people if they don't get enough food elsewhere. This is just two easy reasons. I could list many more but don't want to waste the time.


As a person who is largely in favor of gun owner's rights, I think the dangerous animal argument is silly for almost everyone.

I think the main reason's for owning a gun are the following and ordered from most to compelling. I do think all of these are valid reasons, though:
1. Excercising your rights.
2. Hunting
3. They are fascinating and useful when used responsibly
4. Protecting your home/family
5. Personal security when out of home
6. Protecting your property

That said, I simply don't live in constant fear and cannot think of a time when I seriously wished I had a gun for my own protection. Yes, I've lived/traveled in mucho sketchy places: denver on colfax, los angeles, hollywood, every back woods place in the west, turkey, south america. I've never had a need nor do I think that a gun would make me safer. I think the chances of escalating the situation/getting killed with my own weapon are greater than the security offered.

Evan



Evan


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By Red
From Arizona
Feb 25, 2010
Cobra Kai

jmac wrote:
I will feel less comfortable knowing people have guns.

Funny. I find comfort in knowing that responsible people are carrying and not just the "bad people"(murderers, rapists, and criminals). The more responsible people with firearms, the less crime and innocent people being killed. If everyone carried there would be far less crime and killing. RESPONSIBLE people will only use them if they have to, they are not the ones to fear! When will you anti-gun people figure this out? If firearms were to be outlawed, only the bad people would have them.

It is your right to chose to carry or not (unless you lose that right). We all make that decision for ourselves. If you hate on people that chose to exercise there rights then you should move to another country that does not offer you this freedom of choice. Move to one that does not allow its citizens to own a firearm. That way you can pretend that nobody has them and feel all jolly about your false sense of security, because nobody can hurt you if firearms are outlawed.


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By Derek W
Feb 25, 2010
First summit of First Flatiron

Also, I can say that it isn't paranoia that drives me to carry at any time. It's that old mindset from the Boy Scouts I think, "Be Prepared". I carry HOPING I'll NEVER have to use it, but I don't want to find myself in a situation (the rare bear attack on a companion, assault on myself or another, etc) and know I have a way to end it sitting on my desk at home. I won't be a victim if I can at all help it! (even though I am pretty dang sure it'll never happen to me)

And last, yeah, I've been confronted in an area where I had a weapon on me, but my first instinct wasn't to draw or brandish my weapon, my instinct was to defuse and create separation, I wish that was the mindset for more people out there, whether they carry or not.


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By Red
From Arizona
Feb 25, 2010
Cobra Kai

Evan1984 wrote:
I think the dangerous animal argument is silly for almost everyone.

That's cool. People do get killed by bears and other wild animals. If I know I will be camping around such animals, I will bring my firearm. I would rather not have you all read the story in the paper about how I was kill by a hungry bear. Rare, but it does happens.

Easy google search got this:
Fatal bear attacks in North America

According to the records on the above list, this is becoming more and more common. It is not something that I worry about or fear happening, but it is something to consider.


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By S. F. Pitman
From Boulder, CO
Feb 25, 2010

I was always taught that a gun is a tool. If it is treated as a tool, it will only be used in a utilitarian way. If one thinks of a gun first as a weapon, the likelihood that it will be used as a weapon or just more liberally than a tool is much higher.

I own several guns but rarely feel compelled to carry them out of concern for safety. I don't really feel more or less safe depending whether or not I have a gun. However, other people with guns often frighten me. I can't guarantee that most people were given the meticulous training and respect for the devices that I was.

That being said, I'll be surprised if this law change bears too much of a shift on most people's park visits. I heard a commentary on NPR about this, and I'm pretty sure that it is still illegal to discharge them in most instances (no hunting in the park, so any animal kill would be poaching and subject to serious fines).


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By Tradster
From Phoenix, AZ
Feb 25, 2010

flatlander605 wrote:
Tea & Wehling ~ I am TOTALLY one of those people! Even with 9 years in the military I still don't feel comfortable enough to have one strapped to my hip (thankfully I'm in the Air Force :) I promise I'm a MUCH better driver, though...so at least I won't kill you on your WAY to the park ;)


Regarding firearms, you should do what is comfortable for you. I had this discussion with my wife several years ago (there had been several rapes in the downtown parking gargage she parked at for work, which the property manager concealed from everybody) and flat out asked her: 'If it comes down to pulling the trigger to prevent being attacked, are you willing to do it, even if it means killing that person?' If a person can't answer 'yes' to that question, they should not own a gun. It would be counterproductive. Get a TASER instead.


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By S. F. Pitman
From Boulder, CO
Feb 25, 2010

Red wrote:
That's cool. People do get killed by bears and other wild animals. If I know I will be camping around such animals, I will bring my firearm. I would rather not have you all read the story in the paper about how I was kill by a hungry bear. Rare, but it does happens. Easy google search got this: Fatal bear attacks in North America


26 deaths in the last decade...per how many nights per capita spent in the woods? I'm guessing the percentage would be below negligible. I also noticed that Timothy Treadwell was on there...he was asking for it.

Also, how many of those are attacks that a) would have been prevented had a gun been present and b) could *NOT* have been prevented any other way?

From a purely statistical standpoint the bear attack argument is weak. You might make a better case by finding the number of animal attacks that were *prevented* by people having guns. This statistic would not bear the additional burden of correlative data, as the one you provided does.

As someone else on here said, the rights argument is probably the strongest.


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By Red
From Arizona
Feb 25, 2010
Cobra Kai

Wehling wrote:
Also, I can say that it isn't paranoia that drives me to carry at any time. It's that old mindset from the Boy Scouts I think, "Be Prepared". I carry HOPING I'll NEVER have to use it, but I don't want to find myself in a situation (the rare bear attack on a companion, assault on myself or another, etc) and know I have a way to end it sitting on my desk at home. I won't be a victim if I can at all help it! (even though I am pretty dang sure it'll never happen to me) And last, yeah, I've been confronted in an area where I had a weapon on me, but my first instinct wasn't to draw or brandish my weapon, my instinct was to defuse and create separation, I wish that was the mindset for more people out there, whether they carry or not.

Well said, I feel exactly the same. Have it and hope to not ever need it, rather than the opposite.
Great work defusing the situation in which you were in! I take it no shots were fired... That's the way it should be. Still a shame you were in that position!


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By Jim Amidon
Feb 25, 2010
J TREE

I don't really have any opinion on the guns in the national parks. You have to have a concealed carry permit already to be able to have one in a park so I don't really care......

Do I know people who carry large caliber handguns on approaches where big bears live, yes, does it bother me, no.

I've climbed with a .40 cal in my pack before carrying it for a client.....didn't bother me either....

Do I expect to see people in Rocky Mountain National Park with a gun on their hip, no.....

Would I carry one in RMNP NO, Cody early or late season YES.......Grizzlies who wake up are usually hungry, as well as wolf packs......and I'm sure there a LOADS of people out there that would say a handgun won't do anything but piss off the bear.....well that's usually said by the person NOT having a bear bearing down on them.....maybe you would kill the charging bear or maybe the report would break the charge.

Hard to tell but as one local said to me in Cody about bear spray," well you know bear spray is only good when the wind is in your favor and how many times has the wind been blowing when you've been in Cody, always"

If you have the unfortunate choice to make in leveling off with a human, as a good friend who is a criminal defense attorney says "you better make sure you kill them cause you'll most likely get sued if they live".....

I'm emptying the 13 rnd clip if I ever got to that point..........


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By Timmamok
From Durango, CO
Feb 25, 2010
crack at undisclosed location - my little proj

Get ready to watch the crime rate in NPS sky rocket.

I guess when some idiot starts taking pop shots at me because they think I'm a bear or something scurrying through the brush I can shoot back.


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