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Fire on Backside of Flatirons
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By ROC
From Englewood, CO
Jun 28, 2012

Not to change the subject, but does anyone have any updates on the fire situation and the Eldo closure? Just curious what kind of progress is being made up there.

Sorry to interupt. Please continue the debate.


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By contra
From colorado springs
Jun 28, 2012

GabeO wrote:
I don't know if there's any truth to this rumor, but I heard that a lot of new construction in that area of The Springs had shake shingles rather than asphalt. It's hard to believe, given what I imagine would be much higher insurance costs, but if it's true it would go a long way toward explaining what, as you say, is a very atypical event. GO


i don't believe this is true but am not certain. it certainly isn't necessary to explain how this fire exploded and would probably have caused a lot more destruction than it did

i've seen asphalt and tile in the photos and want to say that CS ordinances prohibit the use of shake. but i'm not motivated enough to look it up

@J. Thompson thanks for dropping the knowledge.

edit - i just spoke with a coworker who lives in the affected area in CS (she believes her house survived, which is a small miracle). the ordinance prohibiting shake shingles was enacted in 2002 and anything built prior was grandfathered in. so quite unbelievably there were people up there with shake.


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By NickinCO
From colorado
Jun 28, 2012
after the hard stuff, into cruiser hands.

ROC wrote:
Not to change the subject, but does anyone have any updates on the fire situation and the Eldo closure? Just curious what kind of progress is being made up there. Sorry to interupt. Please continue the debate.


according to the website Eldo is still closed. Check there for updates.


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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Jun 28, 2012
Stabby

Shake shingles:

shake
shake


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By s.price
From PS,CO
Jun 28, 2012
 Morning Dew ,self portrait

DB, are you sure those are shake? They make a lightweight concrete shingle system that looks just like wood.


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By Thomas Riddle
From Provo, Ut
Jun 28, 2012
Managing expectations

TheBirdman wrote:
Too bad. Fire has been occurring in forests for as long as there have been forests and will continue to occur long after humans are gone. Hence why certain pine cones only open in temperatures above a certain level and why many western conifers have developed fire resistant bark. The problem is the urban/wilderness interface. People simply live too close to wilderness areas. Proper planning and zoning has been effective in rectifying this as evidenced by case studies in Montana. In response to your comment that we "thin" forests and that we can do X, Y, Z in terms of military force, it's incredibly anthropocentric. Humans do not have the answers to everything and "controlled burns" are one of the greatest examples of human hubris. How many "controlled burns" turn into forest fires? The fact is the safest ecological solution is to let nature do it's thing and properly plan to stay out of it's way. Admittedly, things like super volcanoes, earthquakes, etc. are much more difficult to plan for but it's something that you need to consider. If you live in the wilderness in the West, fires are a concern. If you live in CA, plan for an earthquake. If you live near Yellowstone, have a volcano plan if you aren't instantly vaporized. The fact is thinking we can control natural disaster is plain arrogant and wrong. Trying to figure out how to exist while mitigating the damage and still letting nature do what it has to do is the best solution. Full disclosure: I'm an environmental attorney whose had this debate with USFS too many times. They think they can control something that is uncontrollable when the better solution is to just mitigate the danger by requiring defensible space and creating a thorough master plan that prohibits any structures too close to the urban/wilderness interface.


I'm interested in hearing your arguments continued, especially in the vein of the anthropocentric vein. The arguments familiar to me in that vein are usually anti-Spinozoan, or ignores early man.

The evidence I've seen supports that following the megafauna extinctions the archeological record clearly shows man-made fires as frequent and deliberate. Wooly mammoths and others likely played a similar forest-thinning role elephants often perform to this day; absent such megafauna and with the productivity and macro-biodiversity of mature forests so much lower, fires were the most efficient and restorative land clearing device.

With disease and the wave of American settlers, the new human population out west discontinued such practice, valuing tall stands of timber in different light. Similarly, would be the explosion of buffalo numbers as disease ravaged the numbers of the first nations' tribes. 200 years plus the misguided fire suppression tactics following the 1910 WA-ID-MT fire, seems to have primed American expectations for huge stands of totally unburned timber, as well as the seemingly frequent mega-fires.

Personally, I think Smoky the Bear is one of the most harmful things ever created.


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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Jun 28, 2012
Stabby

s.price wrote:
DB, are you sure those are shake? They make a lightweight concrete shingle system that looks just like wood.

Yeah, but its relatively new whereas this subdivision dates back to mid-90's. Also, if you check out the slideshow of the destruction from aerial pics on KMGH's site, you can see where slate and concrete tiled roof's survived right next to several homes that did not.


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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Jun 28, 2012
My navigator keeps me from getting lost

Delta Bravo wrote:
Yeah, but its relatively new whereas this subdivision dates back to mid-90's. Also, if you check out the slideshow of the destruction from aerial pics on KMGH's site, you can see where slate and concrete tiled roof's survived right next to several homes that did not.


I don't quite understand what I'm looking at in the pic. One of the homes with a circle above the roof is on fire. The fire just hasn't made it to that part of the structure yet. And, it looks like the other homes are just in front of the fire line at this point but may (or, may not) survive.

Explanation of the pic, por favor?


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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Jun 28, 2012
Stabby

There were some discussions above about the whether or not there were shake shingles in that sub division. The local FD confirmed that, and that picture shows shake shingled roof's, so I was just clarifying things a little.
One reason (of many) that there was such a conflagration up there was combining shake shingled roofs with embers of up to a pound being blown out of the firestorm hundreds of yards.


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By s.price
From PS,CO
Jun 28, 2012
 Morning Dew ,self portrait

Thanks DB.


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Jun 28, 2012
Bocan

www.dailycamera.com/boulder-county-news/ci_20964819/crews-re>>>

New fire behind the first...saw it on the way home from work today. From that HUGE bolt I think. Sucker stayed lit for like 3 seconds at least.


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By J. Thompson
From denver, co
Jun 28, 2012
Trundling a death block. Photo by Dan Gambino.

Wow. I'm blown away that so many homes there still had shake shingles! That answers alot of questions. A shake shingle roof is like a huge bullseye for embers...especially in a year like this when the chance any fire brand will ingnite is over 50% of the time.

Crazy...it really does explain alot.

josh


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By Steve Sangdahl
From eldo sprngs,co
Jun 29, 2012

This is an update from my view of the fire in Shadow canyon above my house in Eldo. Last nite we could see trees exploding and very Large fires in shadow canyon and on the south \east side of south boulder peak. These were seen from the upper deck of my home in the town of Eldorado Springs and were still burning intensly at 11:00pm last nite. These flames were probably bigger than the first nite of the fire(tuesday).there was also a good size blaze on top of Bear peak last nite also. It is quite alarming to watch trees litterly explode from within view of ones home. This fire will likely be not put out for sometime due to the rugged terrain in shadow canyon etc.
Not sure of the status of eldo for climbin as of 6/29. If you come to Eldo to climb please drive slow in town and be careful.
Thank you fire fighters!!!!!

as a side note, within 3 hours of the fire starting on Tuesday the potential looters were already scoping out Eldo houses for later. I seen em.


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Jul 3, 2012
Bocan

Most of the Flatirons are open again. ;o)


www.bouldercolorado.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=ar>>>


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