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By RobC2
May 11, 2013
This..

Fifi On...

The leader, an experienced ice climber...


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By Kirby1013
From Baltimore Maryland
May 11, 2013
Me eating a cliff bar walking back from Frankenstein Amphitheater

That sucks! We all could say some dumb shit but everybody's been there. I just never used a fifi hook. I usually bail early enough to build an anchor. I don't know if it's common sense or lack of balls but as soon as I get a little pumped on a 4.. I bail! Haha..


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By The Countess of Monterey
May 11, 2013
Me

I have used a fi fi hook in ice climbing, or may I say aiding ice to be more exact. It works well for a new leader to rest and avoid the death grip on tools and pump out. Fi Fi girth hitched into your belay loop with a regular size alpine sling hooks outo the top hole of the tool gingerly, taking weight off the arm and allowing for rest when needed, easily comes off when done resting.


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By Buff Johnson
May 11, 2013
smiley face

as stated in the article, if the leader needs slack for whatever reason, just ask the belayer for slack. I wonder if they rethought their comm protocol.


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By Ryan N
From Lone Tree, Colorado
May 12, 2013
RJN

WTF? Not sure why anyone would change the universal climbing commands. I've lead some hard ice pitches before, and ice can be lead safely. Not sure where they came up with that technique, obviously not as "expierenced" as they lead themselves to be...


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By Brendan Blanchard
From Strafford, NH
May 12, 2013
Obi Wan Ryobi - Darth Vader Crag, Rumney NH

Maybe I missed it, but the c;limber never used a fifi-hook? He pulled rope up and draped it over his tool so he could rest on the rope. Had he used a fifi-hook, he wouldn't have needed to yell senseless things to his belayer and may have not gotten hurt.


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By The Countess of Monterey
May 12, 2013
Me

I don't like their method either. Mine works well....i am gonna use it, now that I have not lead ice in ages...I need all the help I can get...


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By Ryan N
From Lone Tree, Colorado
May 12, 2013
RJN

Countess, if you EVER USE THAT TECHNIQUE, that will be the last time we climb.


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By shoo
From Boston, Massachusetts
May 12, 2013
Rock wars, Red River Gorge

There were two errors here: poor understanding of the limitations of verbal communication and a horrendously stupid climbing system.

This might be the most baffling ice system I have heard of in a long, long time. I also don't understand where the "fifi" part comes in, as there doesn't seem to be any fifi hook involved. It certainly stands to reason that these two were severely ignorant of standard practices, assuming the article author accurately reported the situation.

There are countless ways of dealing with (or avoid) being pumped, any one of which does not require intense communication. Directly hanging on a screw, clipped to harness via a quickdraw, is usually the best option if you are out of communication. Even better, you can clip the screw as pro and go in directly to it if you need.

Hanging on a pounded-in ice tool is an option of desperation only, and not to be relied in. Ideally, assuming the tool has a clip-in point at the bottom (some don't), you can hang directly off the BOTTOM of the tool, which is essentially how a tool is made to be hung from. Doing the same from the top of the tool increases the severity of the lever-arm, potentially increasing the possibility that the torque will rotate the tool outward. Either way, it's a bit of a sketch-fest, since small motions can shift the tool and pop it out.

Throwing the rope over the top of the tool is not done much anymore. The nice thing about this is that it is not as subject to pick shift as the above-mentioned methods. The negatives are obvious: the rope isn't actually clipped to anything, and it requires very precise communications, any failure of which will have severe consequences.


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By RobC2
May 12, 2013
This..

Never put your rope over the pick, the "blade" of your axe for any reason! If you did fall and the axe stayed put it would likely saw right through the rope...

Climb clean! This is aid climbing, not ice climbing...


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By Brendan Blanchard
From Strafford, NH
May 12, 2013
Obi Wan Ryobi - Darth Vader Crag, Rumney NH

RobC2 wrote:
Never put your rope over the pick, the "blade" of your axe for any reason! If you did fall and the axe stayed put it would likely saw right through the rope... Climb clean! This is aid climbing, not ice climbing...


I think it would be resting on the top/hammer section. The fact that the pick is sharp is secondary to all the other failures, pointless things, and non-safe parts in the system.


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By Ryan N
From Lone Tree, Colorado
May 12, 2013
RJN

BTW, I'm pretty sure if your ever using your tool as pro you've already fucked up.


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By The Countess of Monterey
May 12, 2013
Me

I used my tool as a pro many times. In Ouray i built a station out of a tool and a screw. Dasied into a tool, fifi'd into it...never draped though. I dont like their technique.


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By The Countess of Monterey
May 12, 2013
Me

At least im not lying that im aiding ice...


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By The Countess of Monterey
May 12, 2013
Me

Ryan N wrote:
BTW, I'm pretty sure if your ever using your tool as pro you've already fucked up.

Im sure we will still climb ...when i drag you up stairway to heaven...hehehe


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By Jeff J
From Bozeman
May 17, 2013

When I get pumped on ice I just super slam in my tool in the ice and clip it with a draw and hang out for a few until the pump goes away.

This looping the rope over the pick seems like a good way to either cut the rope or have the rope pop the pick out of the ice.


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By Sick Naylor
May 28, 2013
First time up the diamond

Ryan N wrote:
BTW, I'm pretty sure if your ever using your tool as pro you've already fucked up.



Ryan, I'm pretty sure I brought you up on a single tool anchor in ouray that one time. You saying I fucked up?! I thought we were bros...

Sad story. Looping your rope over the tool, just sounds like your asking for trouble. I wish this dude a speedy recovery


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By Tyson Taylor
May 29, 2013
maple canyon climb, first ice climb

It's a good skill to have in your bag of tricks, but regularly relying on it to haul yourself up ice beyond your lead limit is a bad idea. I keep a fifi hitched on my harness as an emergency aid, because I still consider myself a new leader, though I've never had to use it. It's just there to get caught on screws I've placed and climbed past... I've since learned to fifi it back onto a loop of the harness to avoid that unfortunate eventuality.

Typically if I'm pumped I can't swing the tool properly anyway, so I'd be relying on a tool I sank beforehand. There is no "hammer in a bomber tool, then clip to it if you get pumped"...maybe as an intermediate rest or something, I don't know. I'm usually too anxious to get off the sharp end to think like that.


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By RobC2
May 29, 2013
This..

Ryan N wrote:
BTW, I'm pretty sure if your ever using your tool as pro you've already fucked up.


Au contraire... A pounded-in F2 was a live-saving placement at #3 belay on -2 Gulley on Ben Nevis this past season clipped in to the spike and equalized witha tied- off screw and welded stopper it held a sizeable fall by a second.

Pounded into a rock placement that is...


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