fell at 1st bolt = core shot...
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I fell 6 feet, with probably 12' of rope out, aka onto the first bolt. |
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So, do you back clip a lot? Seems like you got off easy considering... |
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How about a worn carabiner? |
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Eep. That's a scary photo. I have no clue how backclipping would have resulted in that. I'm usually a fan of New England ropes. I took a 20 foot whipper, pretty much static because of belayer communication issues, in Clear Creek with my older Glider and the worst that happened was that the core got sucked in a bit. |
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Thats the third one of those ropes I've seen the same problem with. They have those single pic sheaths. I am no materials engineer, but the sheaths seem really tight over the core. They have a very strange hand and you can feel how difficult it is to bend them over a small radius. I saw one get core shot on a short fall on a new biner and the other shot when it was pulled off the anchors of a top rope(!?). Both were situations where I never would have expected a core shot. |
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Not a worn biner issue as core shot was top of bend. The rope is 'stuck' in bent over position as photographed. |
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One thing to consider is that even though you only fell 6', because there was only 12' of rope out the fall factor, which measures the stress on the rope, was .5. If you'd fallen 50 feet with 100 feet of rope out, it'd put the same load on the rope, since more rope means more stretch/shock absorption. |
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Having been back-clipped...it's possible when you fell the rope was twisted against sharp rock before taking the full load, weakening the (thin or poorly made?) sheath and then the final impact forced the core through this section of the rope. |
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You "try" not to back clip? How about you just don't do it? Shouldn't your belayer also be paying attention and tell you as well? Looks like the twist in the rope from backclipping played a part in the coreshot. Go back and check the biner...a small amount of flat wear can result in a pretty easy coreshot. |
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Being an old traddie who only owns 10.2 or above, does anybody think that the newer use of 9-somethings is part of the problem? So many slim and tall guys only weigh like 155 or less and that might be OK to go the 9 route. Being anything over 180lbs, I would still want to use my 'fat' ropes for all things leading. |
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I very strongly believe in New England Ropes. That is not to make light of this, but I feel it should be stated that they are one of the most dependable ropes out there. I factored two-ed on a retired 9.8 while rope soloing... over cammed the gri gri.... the rope held (or I would not be here. |
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So a bit more info, this was the 1st lead fall on this rope, which ahd at most 5 days of outings on it. The biner I fell on was mine and had NO wear/grooving and was a standard sized biner. I bought the rope at REI with a 20% off coupon and it was the only 70 bi-color they had, which is what I wanted... |
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Woodchuck ATC wrote:Being an old traddie who only owns 10.2 or above, does anybody think that the newer use of 9-somethings is part of the problem? So many slim and tall guys only weigh like 155 or less and that might be OK to go the 9 route. Being anything over 180lbs, I would still want to use my 'fat' ropes for all things leading.I dunno. I'm 175-180, have taken plenty of fairly big falls on sub-10mm ropes, and haven't had any core shots. I wonder about the length of the rope out. I know that a 6' fall on 12' of rope creates the same FF as a 50' fall on 100' of rope. But, with only 12' of rope out, all of that force is absorbed by a relatively short amount of rope. Is it possible that has something to do with it? |
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There is a good chance the rope ran across the nose of the biner, since it was back clipped. This might explain the core shot. The poster is lucky the rope didn't unclip from the draw. |
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Crag Dweller wrote: I dunno. I'm 175-180, have taken plenty of fairly big falls on sub-10mm ropes, and haven't had any core shots. I wonder about the length of the rope out. I know that a 6' fall on 12' of rope creates the same FF as a 50' fall on 100' of rope. But, with only 12' of rope out, all of that force is absorbed by a relatively short amount of rope. Is it possible that has something to do with it?That is the whole point of fall factors. |
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Guy H. wrote:There is a good chance the rope ran across the nose of the biner, since it was back clipped. This might explain the core shot. The poster is lucky the rope didn't unclip from the draw.That's what I thought too: that the rope snagged on the gate or nose as it was unclipping. If so, you're very lucky it snagged and suffered a core shot, and didn't unclip -- replacing the rope will cost you much less than the medical bills would have cost you. |
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The core shot is 3 ft from the end of the rope.</quote |
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My bad, the core shot was 3 ft from the knot. I edited the post.. |
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JohnWesely wrote: That is the whole point of fall factors.Fall factor is one component in the equation but there's more to it than that. Impact force is what is really in question here. And, to keep it simple, fall factor is the amount by which the force generated by the fall is multiplied to create the impact force. So, while two different falls may have the same fall factor, they may generate very different impact forces. Keeping the FF constant, a fall on a shorter length of rope will generate a greater impact force than a fall on a longer length of rope. |
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Crag Dweller wrote: Fall factor is one component in the equation but there's more to it than that. Impact force is what is really in question here. And, to keep it simple, fall factor is the amount by which the force generated by the fall is multiplied to create the impact force. So, while two different falls may have the same fall factor, they may generate very different impact forces. Keeping the FF constant, a fall on a shorter length of rope will generate a greater impact force than a fall on a longer length of rope.Care to share how you are coming up with these numbers? |
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I know this post hasn't seen a lot of traffic, but it had me curious about the terminology we're using so I thought I would consult my closest climbing book and see what it had to say. |