Fall in Eldo Sunday evening
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Anyone know what happened? |
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Whatever or wherever, let's hope for a quick heal up for the guy. . . |
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The climber who fell is Boris from Austria. He is a friend and coworker of my friends and he took a very bad fall right at the end of the day. There were four of us climbing on the West Ridge and we split up into two parties of two. Boris and his partner were top roping Iron Horse as the last climb of the day and he had just topped out at the anchors and yelled out OK. |
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Thanks for the update Mark. |
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I nearly witnessed a similar accident. All seemed well and good on the ground with good preparation: "You going to rap down?" asked the belayer, and climber answered "Yes!". Most days at this 30' wall are pretty lax, but wind can wrench up the works. So the climber sends, and clips to the anchor, setting up to rap. Belayer, his job finished, unclips and removes his harness and begins loading his pack. Then we hear from above "TAKE! Ready to lower..." earning the response... "STOP!!NO!!" as my partner scrambled to secure the rope and reestablish a belay. Climber had forgotten during her ascent, and the belayer didn't confirm she was rapping before breaking out of the belay. |
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In theory, it should be very straightforward. Belayer must keep belaying until he/she positively hears "off belay". Climber who calls "off belay" cannot assume he/she is on belay unless requesting it and getting audible confirmation via "on belay". In practice of course, things like wind, other noise distractions, extra communications and various assumptions people make can make this less obvious. We've all been there, and it's an important reminder to always remember the importance of clear communication when climbing, even in a "casual" toprope setting. |
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For fux sake..."ok" does not mean "take me off belay"..."off belay" is the ONLY command (or safe or whatever you use if your not from the US) that should result in your belayer removing your belay. At the same time, "ok" is NOT a useful command. |
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First of all, I could easily see this happen and condolences to the people involved...a terrible situation. I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death, but I think my partners' and my system is close to flawless. The only time the belayer takes a person off is the sequence below: |
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Hope Boris heals up without any lasting injuries! |
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Thanks for the update - Good luck in your recovery Boris! |
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Matt Pierce wrote: I wonder why more people dont use small 2-way radios? Especially on multipitch and with wind, creek and traffic noise...Harshness alert! If you don't like a spade being called a spade, don't read this. On the other hand, there's obviously a lot of people out there who need to read this. The judgment of Gravity is swift, sure, uncompromising and uncaring. These types of accidents happen so frequently these days that they define an entire new genre. Let's call it the "I'm too cool or complacent to use the standard belay signals and double-check my rig" genre. "Okay" is NOT a belay signal. Taking your partner off belay when the signal is unclear (eg. "Okay", wind, creek noise) is stupid and often fatal. Calling "Off Belay" when you intend to lower, is stupid and sometimes fatal. Here's the most important one: Not double-checking that the rope (lowering) or your rap-setup takes your weight before unclipping from the anchor is really stupid, and generally fatal. If you don't know how to do this, learn. If you know how but don't then Gravity will be your judge. P.S. Not checking your partner's knot or belay before leaving the ground falls (pun intended) into the same genre. |
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I have to agree witht the previous post. I decked in a climbing gym because my belayer rigged his grigri backwards and then lost control of the belay |
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Bill M wrote:I have to agree witht the previous post. I decked in a climbing gym because my belayer rigged his grigri backwards and then lost control of the belayYou should have double checked his setup (your belay), and he should have checked your knot before you started climbing. Belay accidents are preventable. |
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Another aspect that can escape some of us. I grew up climbing in almost empty climbing area. Rarely did we see other climbers. So we head to Potreo, it became clear that one needed to address their partner by name. In very crowded crags, clear communication isn't always sufficient, as you might hear a call from an adjoining route and think it's your partner. Addressing them by name can help avoid errors. |
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John Byrnes wrote: Harshness alert! If you don't like a spade being called a spade, don't read this. On the other hand, there's obviously a lot of people out there who need to read this. The judgment of Gravity is swift, sure, uncompromising and uncaring. These types of accidents happen so frequently these days that they define an entire new genre. Let's call it the "I'm too cool or complacent to use the standard belay signals and double-check my rig" genre. "Okay" is NOT a belay signal. Taking your partner off belay when the signal is unclear (eg. "Okay", wind, creek noise) is stupid and often fatal. Calling "Off Belay" when you intend to lower, is stupid and sometimes fatal. Here's the most important one: Not double-checking that the rope (lowering) or your rap-setup takes your weight before unclipping from the anchor is really stupid, and generally fatal. If you don't know how to do this, learn. If you know how but don't then Gravity will be your judge. P.S. Not checking your partner's knot or belay before leaving the ground falls (pun intended) into the same genre.I'm not disagreeing with you. My question was more geared toward multi-pitch - where my leader has run out a long pitch or 2 and I have long since lost sight of him. Yes we have signals and yes they work but I've often wondered what is a better solution when you clearly can not see or hear your leader. |
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Matt Pierce wrote: I'm not disagreeing with you. My question was more geared toward multi-pitch - where my leader has run out a long pitch or 2 and I have long since lost sight of him. Yes we have signals and yes they work but I've often wondered what is a better solution when you clearly can not see or hear your leader.Leave him on belay until the rope comes taught on the anchor. Wait a minute or two, if he's at all smart, then he'll figure out what's up and put you on belay, if you're still worried, then very cautiously leave the anchor, see if he starts pulling up slack, if not, there's a problem, and you may need to climb back down, rebuild the anchor and wait until he gets the memo |
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Matt Pierce wrote: I'm not disagreeing with you. My question was more geared toward multi-pitch - where my leader has run out a long pitch or 2 and I have long since lost sight of him. Yes we have signals and yes they work but I've often wondered what is a better solution when you clearly can not see or hear your leader.You never take your leader off belay until you get a clear signal. If you can't hear him, you leave him on belay until he takes up all the rope and starts tugging on you. Commonly, three strong, slow tugs is on-belay (agree beforehand). At that point you can take him off, and he should take up the rope that was in the device. Give him two tugs for "climbing", and again, any extra rope should be take up before you unclip. |
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John Byrnes wrote: You never take your leader off belay until you get a clear signal. If you can't hear him, you leave him on belay until he takes up all the rope and starts tugging on you. Commonly, three strong, slow tugs is on-belay (agree beforehand). At that point you can take him off, and he should take up the rope that was in the device. Give him two tugs for "climbing", and again, any extra rope should be take up before you unclip.In practice, the "tug" method is often unreliable, particularly when you have a long, wandering pitch with a lot of friction in the system. I generally follow an agreed-upon "one-minute rule" with my climbing partners: once the rope comes taut, wait one minute and then start climbing. I also climb slowly for the first few moves and make sure that the slack is being taken up before continuing. |
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Matt Pierce wrote: I'm not disagreeing with you. My question was more geared toward multi-pitch - where my leader has run out a long pitch or 2 and I have long since lost sight of him. Yes we have signals and yes they work but I've often wondered what is a better solution when you clearly can not see or hear your leader.I don't use radios and am not personally a fan. If I had a partner who really wanted to use them, I would use them and I could not care less if other people use them. Just be sure you know what to do when they fail or the batteries go dead. If on a multi-pitch and can hear your partner, great, take them off belay when they call for it. Can't hear them but think they're off belay? The conservative answer is to keep them on belay and pay out rope until they reach the end of the line. Then they are either anchored and belaying you or you are simul-climbing. Either way, you really have no choice but to break down your anchor and climb when the rope goes (and continues to be) tight. It is usually clear whether or not your leader has you on belay. The less conservative answer, and the option I usually choose is this: when your leader has stopped for a while and should be near the end of the pitch and has probably yelled something that you can't quite make out, pay out some slack. If you notice the rope getting pulled up pretty quickly (faster than one could probably climb)then it is likely that they are anchored and pulling up rope. At that point I usually feel pretty confident taking them off belay and when the rope hits the end I'll wait a minute to see if it goes tight, break down my anchor and begin climbing. Don't climb if the rope doesn't go up. You can work out a series of rope tugs for signals too. 99.99% of the time, it is clear to me what is going on at the other end of the rope, but when in doubt keep them on belay until the rope goes tight, at which point you don't have a whole lot of options. But this whole thing is not really what this accident is all about. This accident sounds like it had nothing to do with the inability to communicate. This accident sounds more like a lack of clear and proper communication in a situation where it was entirely possible. |
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csproul wrote:But this whole thing is not really what this accident is all about. This accident sounds like it had nothing to do with the inability to communicate. This accident sounds more like a lack of clear and proper communication in a situation where it was entirely possible.Couldn't agree more. Despite the fact that communication is often more difficult in a multi-pitch scenario, it seems that these types of accidents are more prevalent in top rope or cragging situations, probably because people tend to be much more attentive and pro-active about communication in the former. |
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Alexey Dynkin wrote: In practice, the "tug" method is often unreliable, particularly when you have a long, wandering pitch with a lot of friction in the system. I generally follow an agreed-upon "one-minute rule" with my climbing partners: once the rope comes taut, wait one minute and then start climbing. I also climb slowly for the first few moves and make sure that the slack is being taken up before continuing.When the rope gets tight... start climbing. You might be simul-climbing but either way, you have no choice so you just have to go. I have done it this way and yeah, much more reliable than the tug method. |