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Etiquette when finding booty?
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By chris deulen
From Merriam, Kansas
Nov 17, 2009
Think it'll go?

Alright, here's what the standard should be:

You find something (gear, backpack, jacket, etc.). If it's worth it, you post it in lost and found. If no one claims it, it's yours.

If someone claims it, they make the effort to come and get it (or meet you at whatever destination you're willing to compromise on), and bring you alcohol.

It's simple, it works, and everyone wins.


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By Coeus
From a botched genetics experiment
Nov 17, 2009
I am a neandertal.

Don't forget that not all gear left in the rock is booty. Sometimes that gear is a rap anchor. There are some areas where you can't bolt so people leave fixed nuts etc.


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Nov 17, 2009
Bocan

pooler wrote:
What if you are hiking in the rain on a day when no one else is at the crag and you come across some stashed gear(ie: a rope,cams ect..) it's not on a route but someone was obviously to lazy to hike it out, or in. Is that booty or if you take it are you a dick? basically I'm asking if stashed gear is considered booty?



Are you kidding?? Not only would you be a dick, but probably deserve a beatdown. How would you feel if someone stole all your stuff that your worked hard for? In your situation, how do you know they didn't run out of a massive lightning storm and didn't want to carry metal on their backs??

Just because it's stashed doesn't make it free. Maybe it's a bit irresponsible to leave it out but the word "STASH" should signify an attempt at concealment. Read any climbing books and you find hundreds on instances where it starts "we stashed our gear"....Or what about the individuals that are nice enough to spend their time, effort and money to put up routes for YOU to climb?? They are lazy because they don't want to hump the loads of gear required to put up a route back and forth?

IMHO that is theft...plain and simple. No offense, but it's a little disturbing you had to ask that question. You might as well asked if it's ok to steal someone's gear.


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By pooler
From Albany, NY
Nov 17, 2009

Just to be fair it was not "STASHED" it was hanging from a nut at the base of the cliff in plain sight. For the record I didn't take it. Also there was no way this person ran out of the woods in a lighting storm bc it was early in th am and my car was the only one in the lot. The hike to this crag is a bitch so I'm guessing this person did not want to lug all there shit back up in there, but if you leave gear in plain sight at a crag is it fair game for others to use, but not take? Also if you do leave gear in this manner do you assume that someone will take it or do you put that much faith in others to do the right thing? Anyway I was just asking bc I would never leave anything I did not expect to loose in plain sight at the base of cliff.


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Nov 17, 2009
Bocan

It's definintely dumb of someone to leave a bag, that I totally agree with and would never do that...it's asking someone to take it.

But you have to ask yourself...is it ok to steal someone's stuff because they didn't want to lug it? In my mind it's still stealing, no matter how dumb they might be. The sad thing is that if you don't steal it, someone else will. I realize the laws of abandonment apply, but in this case it was obvious they planned to return. Sadly enough they would be posting here the next day and whining how the gear they left got stolen.

Props to you for doing the right thing btw...


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By half-pad-mini-jug
From crauschville
Nov 17, 2009

Just leave it!!!

Dang! Doesn't anyone agree that if its not yours, don't take it. It's not considered 'booty,' you have no idea why the previous party left that piece there, and they're probably coming back to get it sometime if its a piece of gear... And if its just a bail biner, why the hell do you want someone's old manky biner, they obviously left it as a bail biner cuz its an older one. Earn some money and go buy your own f*cking gear!!!


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By Bryan G
From San Jose
Nov 17, 2009
Puffy jackets and Happy Boulders

darth jables wrote:
Just leave it!!! Dang! Doesn't anyone agree that if its not yours, don't take it. It's not considered 'booty,' you have no idea why the previous party left that piece there, and they're probably coming back to get it sometime if its a piece of gear... And if its just a bail biner, why the hell do you want someone's old manky biner, they obviously left it as a bail biner cuz its an older one. Earn some money and go buy your own f*cking gear!!!

People want bail biners so when THEY have to bail they don't leave a biner that they spent $5 on. It's the cycle of booty, you win some, you lose some. Think of it as a gumby tax for getting in over your head.


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By half-pad-mini-jug
From crauschville
Nov 17, 2009

Regardless, just don't be a douche... Leave the gear where you found it.


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By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Nov 17, 2009
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of Twist of Fate, Oak Creek Canyon. <br /> <br />photo: Blake McCord

reject the basic assumptions of civilization especially the importance of material possession!

oh yeah, and sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.


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By PRRose
From Boulder
Nov 17, 2009

pooler wrote:
Just to be fair it was not "STASHED" it was hanging from a nut at the base of the cliff in plain sight. For the record I didn't take it. Also there was no way this person ran out of the woods in a lighting storm bc it was early in th am and my car was the only one in the lot. The hike to this crag is a bitch so I'm guessing this person did not want to lug all there shit back up in there, but if you leave gear in plain sight at a crag is it fair game for others to use, but not take? Also if you do leave gear in this manner do you assume that someone will take it or do you put that much faith in others to do the right thing? Anyway I was just asking bc I would never leave anything I did not expect to loose in plain sight at the base of cliff.


The basic rule is that stuff that doesn't belong to you doesn't become your stuff because the true owner is not proximate to the stuff. It doesn't really matter whether the true owner left it there for a good reason, for no reason, or even if it was left illegally (consider, for example, whether you think that your car could become my car because you parked it in front of a hydrant).

The true owner's expectations about whether his stuff might be susceptible to theft do not alter this rule (consider, for example, whether you think that your car could become my car because you left it unlocked).


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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Nov 17, 2009
My navigator keeps me from getting lost

pooler wrote:
Just to be fair it was not "STASHED" it was hanging from a nut at the base of the cliff in plain sight. For the record I didn't take it. Also there was no way this person ran out of the woods in a lighting storm bc it was early in th am and my car was the only one in the lot. The hike to this crag is a bitch so I'm guessing this person did not want to lug all there shit back up in there, but if you leave gear in plain sight at a crag is it fair game for others to use, but not take? Also if you do leave gear in this manner do you assume that someone will take it or do you put that much faith in others to do the right thing? Anyway I was just asking bc I would never leave anything I did not expect to loose in plain sight at the base of cliff.


Maybe he's just lazy and didn't want to carry the gear out.
Or, maybe one of the people took a ground fall, broke an ankle, and had to be carried out. Maybe one of the guys got a call from his pregnant wife who went into early labor. Who knows?

Maybe the circumstances were such that, if you were in them, you'd leave stuff behind too. And, if you did, you'd probably be pissed if you came back to find your gear stolen.

The question you posed implied an effort to discern whether or not you would have been justified in taking the gear. There's no justification for taking others' stuff.


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By Wade Frank
From Littleton, CO
Nov 17, 2009
Rhys at Lake McConaughy.

here is an example of how it works some of the time.

www.mountainproject.com/v/colorado__rocky_mountain_region/fo>>>


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By lee hansche
Administrator
From goffstown, nh
Nov 27, 2009
getting to the last jug before the top out

darth jables wrote:
Just leave it!!! Dang! Doesn't anyone agree that if its not yours, don't take it. It's not considered 'booty,' you have no idea why the previous party left that piece there, and they're probably coming back to get it sometime if its a piece of gear... And if its just a bail biner, why the hell do you want someone's old manky biner, they obviously left it as a bail biner cuz its an older one. Earn some money and go buy your own f*cking gear!!!


i just got a laugh picturing one of the trade routes at any popular cliff if this ethic was in place... i know i wouldnt need to bring a rack anymore on things like Thin Air or Whitney-Gillman for example cause there would be gear to clip all the way to the top... it would look like crap too... i think ill keep cleaning up the cliffs and if there is free gear in it thats even better... i am an ethical person and ive returned gear that ive found, many times ive even climbed routes for people at Rumney just to help them avoid leaving gear if they are having a hard time... im not being a jerk when i collect gear off the cliff, im doing what i think is right...


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By Tparis
From Pottersville,New York
Nov 28, 2009
fall foliage 5.7+ slab

WiledHorse wrote:
unfortunately i dont think the Golden Rule applies anymore these days...

We've pawned it to pay the rent.


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By Tparis
From Pottersville,New York
Nov 28, 2009
fall foliage 5.7+ slab

pooler wrote:
Just to be fair it was not "STASHED" it was hanging from a nut at the base of the cliff in plain sight. For the record I didn't take it. Also there was no way this person ran out of the woods in a lighting storm bc it was early in th am and my car was the only one in the lot. The hike to this crag is a bitch so I'm guessing this person did not want to lug all there shit back up in there, but if you leave gear in plain sight at a crag is it fair game for others to use, but not take? Also if you do leave gear in this manner do you assume that someone will take it or do you put that much faith in others to do the right thing? Anyway I was just asking bc I would never leave anything I did not expect to loose in plain sight at the base of cliff.

I think I know exactly where you are talking about and the person who left that gear there had bootied it all previously and didn't mind loosing it. He had been leaving his drill and bolting supplies in a plastic bin right below those nuts. I suggested that they may be too great a temptation to resist. Did you enjoy the climbing out there?


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By miwuksurfer
From Santa Barbara
Dec 4, 2009

This isn't 'nam! There are rules!


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By Rob Alexander
From Alta
Dec 4, 2009
on rappel

neice.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=48418&pag>>>

i've found these "rules" pretty useful for booty issues, but hey, its up to you. you gotta feel right about whatever you decided to do.


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By sulli
From Lake Tahoe, Ca
Dec 4, 2009
Sulli on the Bliss Arete

lol... took me a few reads before realizing you meant lost gear, i thought you were needing advice for what to do when encountering a cute lil booty out at the crag....


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By Jon Miller on the WS
Dec 5, 2009

Booty doesn't include ski's that are behind my truck! GRRR (If anyone finds a pair of Scotty Bob Fat Bastard skis for sale in the Frisco/Vail area, let me know. They were stolen on Thursday)


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By Brandontyrrell
Apr 14, 2010
the b

I "fixed" a nut on a climb 5 months ago and never got it back, and yesterday when I was building an anchor I found the same size nut that I lost 5 months ago it was pretty sweet.

If its a whole rack or a rope then post it, but other than that its just booty for the next climber to get.

And yes, I will climb something if theres a free cam thats sticking out asking to be my booty


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By mattnorville
Apr 14, 2010
Ship's Prow.

How about crag dogs? If I find one at the crag can I put it into my stir-fry (that way I can actually eat my lunch ;)) or is that just bad taste?


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By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Apr 14, 2010
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of Twist of Fate, Oak Creek Canyon. <br /> <br />photo: Blake McCord

mattnorville wrote:
How about crag dogs? If I find one at the crag can I put it into my stir-fry (that way I can actually eat my lunch ;)) or is that just bad taste?

just leave those as fixed gear somewhere else.


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By Timmamok
From Durango, CO
Apr 14, 2010
crack at undisclosed location - my little proj

mattnorville wrote:
How about crag dogs? If I find one at the crag can I put it into my stir-fry (that way I can actually eat my lunch ;)) or is that just bad taste?


Might just taste bad.


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By John Maguire
From Boulder, CO
Apr 14, 2010
Bastille Crack Final Pitch

mattnorville wrote:
How about crag dogs?


Hahaha my friend and I were just debating this subject while at The Dome in Boulder Canyon. There was this awesome boxer/yellow lab mix dog that was chillen at the base for 4 or so hours. He was super friendly and responsible enough to be left off leash and not go too far - I think he was just enjoying the sun. After We finished all our climbs, I gave him the rest of my water and sure enough, he was ready to follow us home... It was pretty hard to tell him to stay put.


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