Ethics?! To retro fit or not?

So here is my conundrum. I have started to work on a route that is in the R/X range. This is 40 feet of new climbing that adds a direct start to a previously established route. The current route takes a well protected traverse in from the right but the continues up hard climbing with one bolt currently on route. The climbing is hard and hard to protect but safe, still receives an R rating. I have the lower section worked out but the gear is few and far between resulting in a ledge fall at best, if it actually holds. I have talked to the previous route developer and received a go ahead to retro fit it to made it safe for all to climb. My thought is to add only 2-3 bolts in the new terrain in order to make the direct start safe while still keeping it exciting. In order to add the bolts I was required to submit an application to the park service that they must approve before anything is drilled. I plan to lead the route before I get the ok to bolt. I feel for me personally I want to do the route/new terrain on the natural gear but would like more people to climb it as the route is full of amazing climbing and would be 4 stars anywhere if it were seen as safe to lead. The route is also close to 150 ft long so TR is out of the question. I was just looking for the communities opinion in regards to retro fitting a route for the benefit to the masses. This route is in the hard .12 range so not trying to rope new climbers into a scare fest, just trying to add an enjoyable test piece to an already classic area.

If your variation is new you are not retroing. You are establishing. Do so in the best style you deem. Just don't change any aspect of existing lines.

Greg D wrote:If your variation is new you are not retroing. You are establishing. Do so in the best style you deem. Just don't change any aspect of existing lines.

+1

You stated you had the original developers blessing regardless if new variation or existing line; it sounds like youre good to go AND even with a new bolt or two you can still lead it on gear as you desire (dont clip the bolts).

good for you to seek out the original developer. thank you for helping to "keep the peace" and for following the unwritten rules (seeking out original developer, asking for permission, etc).

good luck dude!

Ian Cavanaugh wrote:This is 40 feet of new climbing that adds a direct start to a previously established route. .... I have talked to the previous route developer and received a go ahead to retro fit it to made it safe for all to climb.

You are 100% in the clear. Be sure to note the permission from the FA of the original line in your route database submission of the direct start to keep the angry reactions to a minimum.

And to get a little bit off topic: please use the best possible bolts you can, even if they're expensive! You may never get permission to upgrade or maintain them, so do it right the first time. Since you seem to take proper care in other aspects of route development, I'm sure you already considered this. However, I wanted to mention it for the record.

For true ol skool style points, wear a tinfoil hat and whistle Dixie.

How are you working the route exactly? If you want to preserve some style, could you bolt on lead?

Just to play devil's advocate: I think there is often a tendency for developers to want to bolt their own routes so more people climb them. I know I get this way on the very few and very modest routes I have scrubbed up. You gain an attachment to them and want other people to appreciate them as much you do. And if you add bolts, more people will climb it so you start rationalizing the addition of bolts. But it is worth taking a step back and asking why the route has remained in its original unclimbed and unbolted state for so long or whether more people climbing a route will really lead to more enjoyment and appreciation. Though they may be fewer in number, there are still plenty of people out there that like R/X things and get a huge and well-earned sense of accomplishment from climbing such routes (Ian, it even sounds like you might be one of those people). Maybe they even get a better appreciation of a route. And it's always good to leave a few routes truly free and wild. Especially when they are rapidly disappearing.

Also, just because a route is 4 stars doesn't mean it needs to have a G rating. The quality of a route shouldn't dictate that it gets put up in a poorer style. Far from it, maybe.

Just my two cents.

Jim

I don't see any conundrum. Just do it.

Just as a follow up. I was able to lead this route clean without the addition of any bolts. It was technically the FA of the direct start to a previously established route. The day I lead the route, Jonathan Siegrist lead the route next for its second ascent. two days late another good friend Cody Scarpella lead it for its third. We all agreed that while it was very spicy to lead, no bolts were needed. For what it was worth, I knew that I could lead it, but my idea of adding bolts was to get more people to climb the route. Having two friends climb the route within the same weekend confirmed that safe climbs are not always necessary for a route to be enjoyed.

mountainproject.com/v/ghett…

Ian Cavanaugh wrote:Just as a follow up. I was able to lead this route clean without the addition of any bolts. It was technically the FA of the direct start to a previously established route. The day I lead the route, Jonathan Siegrist lead the route next for its second ascent. two days late another good friend Cody Scarpella lead it for its third. We all agreed that while it was very spicy to lead, no bolts were needed. For what it was worth, I knew that I could lead it, but my idea of adding bolts was to get more people to climb the route. Having two friends climb the route within the same weekend confirmed that safe climbs are not always necessary for a route to be enjoyed. mountainproject.com/v/ghett…

This is awesome!

Yeah seriously inspiring end to this thread :)

Greg D wrote:If your variation is new you are not retroing. You are establishing. Do so in the best style you deem. Just don't change any aspect of existing lines.

What this guy said. Plus if the guy who established the route is kosher with it, I think that gives a bit more leeway...