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Entrance fee for the gunks?
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By Lucas79
From Malden, MA
Oct 25, 2011

Is it really $17 per day per climber? Can anyone confirm that this is true and if so how closely it's monitored? I mean, I don't mind paying an entrance fee.....but that seems a bit steep.
Cheers


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By cjdrover
From Somerville, MA
Oct 26, 2011
Taken at MWV Icefest 2014.

Recent thread:

Gunks and Peterskill Pass price

Summary: Yes, its $17 daily. From what I have seen it is closely monitored, but then again I don't really pay attention as I have a yearly pass.


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By Nathan Stokes
Oct 26, 2011

It is $17.00/person but you don't have to pay additional to park (assuming you get there early enough to find a spot in the MP lots). For that price you do get fairly nice vault privies, trash receptacles, etc. I always wear the day pass wrist band, have never been stopped directly by a ranger and asked for proof. I have never failed to see a ranger or two in the morning on the way in though. Look at it this way, you could be paying the same $17.00 to ride your bike on the carriage road or pinch pebbles too.


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By -sp
From East-Coast
Oct 26, 2011
Buenos Dias!

Lucas79 wrote:
Is it really $17 per day per climber? Can anyone confirm that this is true and if so how closely it's monitored? I mean, I don't mind paying an entrance fee.....but that seems a bit steep. Cheers


Do I wish it were free? Sure. But it's still worth it, because along with what Nathan mentioned you also get rangers that will help haul your sorry-ass out if you deck. So rather than think about it as an entrance fee, consider it a donation to a private organization that actually understands the value of the natural resource and the climbing that goes along with it.


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By Woodchuck ATC
Oct 26, 2011
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008

A pricy donation, but yes it's regulated and monitored to some degree. They usually have someone at the parking lot to check for your wristband or yearly permit. Think it's only 12 bucks to hike the trails or swim at Coxiing Kill. The 17 gets you 'full access' so to speak, including climbing. (I hope it also covers the cost of any rescue needed)


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By Roger Harris
From Boulder, CO
Oct 26, 2011
Roger Harris belaying at Trash Can Rock

The $90 annual fee is less than a quarter a day! Follow this link: www.mountainproject.com/v/the-gunks/105798167


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By Matt Marino
From Georgetown, MA
Oct 26, 2011
Haul Bag

Roger Harris wrote:
The $90 annual fee is less than a quarter a day! Follow this link: www.mountainproject.com/v/the-gunks/105798167


Is there a link to the organization that sells the annual pass (sorry if I missed it)? I know the daily pass is per person, any chance the annual pass gets a group in?


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By Roger Harris
From Boulder, CO
Oct 26, 2011
Roger Harris belaying at Trash Can Rock

www.mohonkpreserve.org/index.php?individual#basic


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By Woodchuck ATC
Oct 26, 2011
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008

Roger Harris wrote:
The $90 annual fee is less than a quarter a day! Follow this link: www.mountainproject.com/v/the-gunks/105798167

Agree it's a great price for the local climber and less than a climbing gym or health club membership. Just a bit out of pocket for the guy passing through who plans on 4 or 5 days of climbs once a year.


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By Nathan Stokes
Oct 26, 2011

And as someone pointed out in the other thread regarding Gunks fees, Peterskill which is inside a State Park is just about as spendy for fees ($8.00 per car, plus $7.00 per climber) for a single pitch /TR venue.


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By Lucas79
From Malden, MA
Oct 26, 2011

Right on....thanks for the beta everyone. Seems like the pass is the way to go if you're going to climb there a lot.


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By Valerie Bachinsky
From West Sand Lake, NY
Oct 29, 2011
Roger's Rock, Lake George, NY

Nathan Stokes wrote:
And as someone pointed out in the other thread regarding Gunks fees, Peterskill which is inside a State Park is just about as spendy for fees ($8.00 per car, plus $7.00 per climber) for a single pitch /TR venue.


Peterskill is $8/car for nonclimbers or $7/person for climbers. Climbers don't get hit twice they just have to pay per person instead of per vehicle.

I renewed my Mohonk membership back in August so it won't be time for me to renew until August 2012. Today I went through my stack of junk mail from just the last month and threw away 6 letters from the Mohonk Preserve requesting that I renew my membership. Seems terribly wasteful. Maybe if they spent less on paper and ink they could afford to charge less of an entrance fee. Just sayin'....


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By dorseyec
Oct 29, 2011

It still seems a little steep, especially given the amount of people who climb there. Yes, I know that more people will have more of an impact but at $17 a day they have to be making thousands on a busy day... Where does all this money go? Surely it cant cost $17 a day to provide a bathroom and trash disposal.... seems like they must be making a profit.


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By rgold
From Poughkeepsie, NY
Oct 29, 2011
The traverse out to the Yellow Ridge on the Dogstick Ridge link-up.  Photo by Myriam Bouchard

Eric Dorsey wrote:
It still seems a little steep, especially given the amount of people who climb there...at $17 a day they have to be making thousands on a busy day...seems like they must be making a profit.


In 2010, entry fees netted about $386,000 (that's for all users, not just climbers). Operating expenditures were about $2,500,000, so the entry fees covered about 15% of operating costs.


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By rock_fencer
From Columbia, SC
Oct 29, 2011
Myself placing a a blue/yellow offset MC to protect between Bolt 2/3 just post crux . <br /> <br />Picture credit goes to eric Singleton, and many thanks to Josh Bagget for the great belay.

rgold wrote:
In 2010, entry fees netted about $386,000 (that's for all users, not just climbers). Operating expenditures were about $2,500,000, so the entry fees covered about 15% of operating costs.


good grief, how on earth are operating costs that high for Mohonk? Annual pass is ofcourse the way to go if your new-england local


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By rgold
From Poughkeepsie, NY
Oct 29, 2011
The traverse out to the Yellow Ridge on the Dogstick Ridge link-up.  Photo by Myriam Bouchard

Perhaps one of the problems is that some climbers think the Preserve is nothing more than an outdoor climbing facility operated entirely for their pleasure. Get a grip---this is not even remotely the case; climbing has nothing to do with the Preserve's fundamental goals and purposes, except perhaps to the extent that climbing represents an appreciation of the natural scene.

Mohonk Preserve Operating Expenses 2010
Mohonk Preserve Operating Expenses 2010


Of course, if the Preserve was just an outdoor gym, then its day fee would be entirely in line with indoor climbing facilities. In spite of the fact that the Preserve's offerings are in an entirely different universe from climbing gyms, some folks seem to think a day at the Preserve should cost less than a few hours in a warehouse with 40 foot plywood and plastic cliffs.

Behind this sense of entitlement is, perhaps, an attitude shaped by the availability of other taxpayer-supported outdoor resources. The Preserve is a private non-profit organization and has to raise money from its users and other supporters.

Considering the ambient population density and the value of scenic land, it is a miracle that the Preserve exists and exceptionally good fortune that it is willing to provide access to climbers. If you are a climber and want to see climbing opportunities preserved in this country, complaining about the day fee is absurd. You should be buying a season pass to the Preserve---whether you plan to climb there or not---as a way of maintaining, not simply a precious climbing resource, but more importantly a unique landscape in the midst of an aggressively sprawling super-urban environment.


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By dorseyec
Oct 29, 2011

Thanks for the link! Definitely interesting to see.

But $250,000 dollars per year on "communications" what does this mean? Same with stewardship and education, what does that include for half a million dollars a year? And what kind of "research" is going on at $330,000 dollars per year? Is it just typical government overspending? Seriously curious....


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By Seth Derr
From harrisburg, pa
Oct 29, 2011
Hey there!

It's a private organization so government overspending's out. I actually think those numbers are pretty reasonable in this day and age. I'm surprised they only raised 385k on entry fees though. I definitely thought it would be more than that. That place is a shit show on any given weekend.


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By dorseyec
Oct 29, 2011

rgold wrote:
Behind this sense of entitlement is, perhaps, an attitude shaped by the availability of other taxpayer-supported outdoor resources.


I think that's a big part of it... I guess I'm used to being able to go outside and enjoy the land in America without paying $17 dollars a day whether its hiking, climbing, biking or whatever. But I understand a private preserve is a totally different case. I still don't understand what kind of research they are doing here to justify spending almost $400,000 a year though.


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By Jake D.
From Northeast
Oct 30, 2011

www.mohonkpreserve.org/index.php

www.mohonkpreserve.org/index.php?whatwedo

They put everything on the website. They do many internships, grants, forest and environment research, animal research


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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Nov 1, 2011
Stoked...

So if daily use funds are such a small part of the income equation why have fees increased so dramatically for climbing? Has it been proportionally increased? If not aren't climbers being asked to foot more and more of the bill when nearly 75% of the bill is stewardship, education, research, and land protection? How much do the folks/organizations that use these aspects of the preserve contribute?

It seems from the data provided that climbers are paying for more of the 'share' of fees while they appear to use the least from the preserve?


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By wankel7
From Indiana
Nov 3, 2011

So, 15% comes from day passes and 24% comes from year pass holders ?

40% of the operating expenses are covered by users.

I guess the point is if this was JUST a crag we would expect these expenses. Admin 9% Land protection 13% Membership 4%

So, climbing, biking , hiking makes up 26% of the expenses. Clearly, we are overpaying for climbing.

But that isn't the point I guess. Our climbing pays for stewardship, stewardship, education and etc.


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By Ice4life
From SLC, UT
Nov 7, 2011
GYM

Woodchuck ATC wrote:
Agree it's a great price for the local climber and less than a climbing gym or health club membership. Just a bit out of pocket for the guy passing through who plans on 4 or 5 days of climbs once a year.



If you go 5 times it pays for itself.


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By C Runyan
From Pennsylvania
Nov 7, 2011

I remember reading somewhere that the Mohonk Preserve has one of the oldest and most detailed climate-data collections in the world. For several generations now, folks there have been (and continue) measuring daily temperatures, vapor-pressure deficit, wind speed, and who knows what else.


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By Woodchuck ATC
Nov 7, 2011
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008

Ice4life wrote:
If you go 5 times it pays for itself.


It's a good deal if you can use it to your greatest advantage, like spending 30 or 40 days a year climbing to come out waaay ahead. Just spending that cash and breaking even over a few days still doesn't seem like a good deal at all.


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By Chris Duca
Administrator
From Havertown, PA
Nov 7, 2011
Finishing up Elusive Dream at the King Wall.  Adirondacks, NY.

For those who have a problem paying the fee, the simplest solution is to choose not to climb there. Otherwise, dip into your rainy day fund, buy a household family pass, go with your wife/roommate/life partner/whoever four weekends over the course of a year, and every time you travel/climb at the Gunks thereafter can be considered money in your pocket. Impeccable stewardship does not come freely.


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