Eldorado Canyon: The Gambit: South Dakotan Ledge Poopers

So this past weekend my girlfriend and I hiked all the way up to Shirt Tail Peak to do the Gambit, a very fun four-pitch 5.8 with a summit that has spectacular views in all directions.

When we arrived at the start, a couple was just finishing up the first pitch, which ends about 100' up on a large ledge. They had left their two kids, ages 5 and 9 or so, in the little ravine there at the bottom, where any rocks kicked off the belay ledges above might just go tumbling down and bouncing past their wee heads. (In fact, I saw just that when the couple made it to the third pitch; a rock the size of a golf ball or so came off from above, hit the ravine floor, then shot past the kids, maybe three feet above their heads and ten or so left...but could just as easily have smacked one in the head.) That was the first sign of trouble. Now, to be fair, they did leave a radio with the kids, so they could communicate, but my girlfriend and I wondered: What happens to the kids if the parents had a problem? I mean, if we hadn't been there, the kids would have been completely alone...

Anyway, my girlfriend gets up to the first ledge, sets up an anchor, and belays me up. When I get up there, though, and move past the big tree, I smell...something. "Is that urine?" I ask. My girlfriend sniffs and says, "Smells like poop." And that's when I see a rock with tissue under it. One of the South Dakotans had pooped on the ledge. Seriously. Seriously disgusting, too. Luckily for me, and unfortunately for my GF, I led the next pitch. I got up to the next belay ledge to find the wife of the couple still there (which is when I found out where they were from). This would be the pattern, with them slowly leading, and us catching up to them...even on the raps down...

When my girlfriend finished leading the third pitch, she caught up with the woman again...at which point I asked over our radios if she found any poop up on that ledge. The woman then asked my GF if she found bird poop on the ledge below. I mean...COME ON!! Either pretend you didn't hear that comment or own it, but don't act like you didn't just drop a deuce on a belay ledge with people following you up a climb!!!!! The levels of rudeness were to know no bounds that day.

When I reached the top of the last pitch, I saw the woman start to rap down. The man watched. My GF arrived at the top. The man was still waiting. I got the rope together. The man FINALLY rapped down. (Maybe 10 minutes after the woman.) We get to the rap tree, notice that the couple rapped off another tree for reasons unknown. Then a voice, from below: "Is anyone up there?" I answer (with an inward groan): "Yes." "Can you help us? Our rope is stuck!"

My thought: WTF??? What would you have done? Ascended the rope? BAD planning. I then go over to their rap anchor, undo the rope and toss it down. They then take a long time to make the next two raps down, forcing my GF and me to wait, wait, wait while they fumble around. NEVER once did they offer to let us pass, not on the way up, nor on the way down. We estimate it took us about 2-3 hours longer because of them.

And to add to it, we even caught up to them on the hike out, and they forced us to walk behind them for about five minutes before finally stepping out of the way to let us pass.

Negligent parents. Possibly criminally negligent. Slow climbers. And ledge poopers. SIGH. I don't think all South Dakotans are like that, but those two were (literally) hard to follow.

Never poop on a belay ledge- If you Must (been there, done that), anchor in, lower off, lock off pendulum out and drop it elsewhere OFF ROUTE. And if you can carry TP, then you can carry a ziplock bag to pack it out in.

That said- the rest is gumby stuff.

What I'm curious about here is how you handled it with them? I mean, I've never had anyone tie me up and force me to walk on a trail behind them for 5 minutes... furthermore I've never even had someone decline my polite request to move over for a moment and let me and faster partners pass them on trail.

I know that may sound sarcastic, but seriously... I have seen a lot of people complaining on-line about behavior that they never confront the perp. about. Are we getting to the point as a society that a public complaint a few days later in the net is the substitute for personal interaction?

Are you positive it was from them? Did you see them do it? Doesn't matter where they are from, some people have no respect or common sense. I am from South Dakota and all the climbers I know from the Black Hills are a lot more courteous than people I have encountered in other areas. I have also noticed more ignorant climbers near metro areas. If you have an issue with something man up and say something, whining on line will not solve the problem.

It appears that you didn't say anything to them and then went back home to rant on your computer. We all know it's wrong...step up next time.

I'm also from South Dakota, and I think South Dakotans are as capable of shitty behavior as anyone.

It might be a South Dakota thing just to say "I was here" kind of like how Brits like to poop in the terminal sumps of caves. No shit.

Couple weeks back we were finishing a before work climb of Freeway (2nd flatiron) and some hiker took a fat dump at the exit.

At least he was a walker and probably didn't know there was a route there...or maybe they did.

And the crap wasn't the worst part...it was that they threw the shirt shreds used for wiping away from them, leaving it strewn across the rock.

Stich wrote:No shit.

Har har har.

This thread has totally gone down the toilet!

Regardless if it was them or not, come on, it was the P1 belay ledge. Rap off, dump in an out of the way spot, re-climb on TR. NOT rocket science.

The kid thing IS pretty damn bad though.

I told them not to do that. I told them to ONLY shit on SD routes, that way we don't get all the out-of-state wankers coming in to climb the shitty SD routes. Dumbass SD'ins, can't teach 'em nothin.

chipacles wrote:My thought: WTF??? What would you have done?

i would have just complained on the internet right then and there with my iphone that i dont have

We'd be a lot better off if everyone, regardless of their state of origin, had one of these in their packs:

biffybag.com/index.htm

Not to get too graphic, but this is one you sorta strap on when you need it. Perfect for those ledges where maybe you need your hands on some holds...

Leaving a 5 year old at the base of a climb for 3 hours, that is pushing it a little, but I guess it's better than sitting on the sofa playing video games all day.

Irrespective of any deficiencies you may have interacting with difficult people, you are one hell of a story teller. Great post!

The other day my partner told me this guy just shit in the middle of the trail near the base of the Book at Lumpy Ridge. WTF! When I saw them later I couldn't resist. "Hey man, do you know who shit in the middle of the trail?" One brit answered "yeah we have that problem in the UK too. Wasn't us, though." The other guy said "yeah, it was me. Sorry. I'll get it." Boy, was the first guy surprised and embarrassed.

If you are not part of the solution, then you might be part of the problem. Speak up! Some people really might be that dumb or just plain ignorant.

Bob Packwood wrote:Maybe they drank too many dank Mountain Sun beers the night before? Can't fault anyone for having an assplosion from half a dozen FYIPAs.

+10

For those of you who said I didn't speak up, you're right, I didn't. I didn't ask if one of them had taken a dump on the ledge because what would that have really accomplished? The woman, who I'm sure did it, would have been embarrassed every time we caught up to them...I'm pretty sure she got the hint from my jokingly asking my girlfriend if there was poop on the ledge above. As for not asking them to wait for us, well, I'm new to trad climbing and wasn't sure if that is right or not...I've only heard people tell me that if others are catching up to you consistently, that you should let them pass...which we did while on Petit Grepon over Labor Day weekend. If I were a bit faster, I might have asked them to pass, but we weren't moving fast enough that I felt comfortable doing that...not to mention, they had left two kids unattended at the base of the climb.

For those of you who enjoyed the story as a story, I'm glad...that's really what it was, in spite of if sounding like a rant...it was, I admit, part rant, but mostly it was just a funny story about two people (regardless of the state of origin) who did something that was rude, a fact that should have been apparent without having to be told or reminded.

And, finally, to those who commented that this was just another rant on the internet...what, precisely, do you think such comments are? Just a question...

chipacles wrote:And, finally, to those who commented that this was just another rant on the internet...what, precisely, do you think such comments are? Just a question...

Well, if that's an honest question, here's the answer, for my own part. I addressed the person (you) that I was speaking of with the intent of communicating an idea. Therein lies the difference. Either the 'target' of the discussion is present or not... If not, it's a rant, but if so, it may be called a discussion, suggestion, or criticism, depending on how you view it, but it actually is communication. I was hoping my point to be taken for a suggestion or discussion, not as criticism.

I was seriously trying to make a point that I thought might have been overlooked- that sometimes confronting a situation (as was done by the people who replied to your post) is the answer most likely to motivate change, or at least prevent a repeat performance.

It sounds to me now like you were making comments intended to apply that social pressure indirectly... in which case, good for you. If manners and ethics can't motivate a person to be reasonable, then the social pressure of embarrassment seems like a valid tool.

Tony: I can see where you're coming from, and I appreciate your answer, but I have to disagree with some semantics. I think you can rant to a person who is present; as I see it and as I think its literal meaning goes, ranting is more about tone, indicating extremes and vehemence, neither of which were in my original post...or I don't believe they were. Perhaps my skill at writing is just poor, and so my sense of humor came across as more angry than sarcastic; if so, I apologize to all for my miscommunication.

I believe you're right, that confrontation does often motivate people to change, but I also think that it is possible to motivate change with more subtle and less direct/confrontational/possibly offensive comments, and thus my comments which were, as you said, "intended to apply social pressure indirectly." (This could also come from my having lived in Japan for 4 of the last 10 years, a country where it can be considered extremely rude to be blunt and direct.) And, in a perhaps not so subtle way, my "humorous" (or humorless?) story was also intended to pass a message on: Don't poop on belay ledges.

In any case, thanks for your thoughtful reply.

You should of flicked the shit off the ledge, onto their kids below.