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Eldo sucks AKA the crag blasphemer's thread
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Nov 1, 2012
rging wrote:
Best rock in the world and quartzite do not belong in the same sentence. We really can't trust your judgment any more.


Doesn't sound like rging has ever climbed at the Gunks or Arapiles.
david goldstein
Joined Jan 1, 2001
2,689 points
Nov 1, 2012
eureka ha
J Johns wrote:
I'm done after this, this quote proves just what I said, I'm sorry but you can't list sport areas that have very little in the way of classic multi pitch CLIMBS at them next to Eldorado Canyon, and the Tetons. The fact that they are old names is what makes them legends and the areas they climbed in Classic and world class.



Take Ten sleep out of the equation and that is an accurate statement, sorry but the TRAD climbing at the NEW could be considered world class by many, I am not going to put that title on the areas TRAD routes but many of them are high quality and could be argued that is some of the best SINGLE PITCH trad in the US (not best overall trad destination for obvious reasons) many locals like Pat Goodman have made this place a well established area for trad routes, and if we are gonna bring up "legends" Gerrard (who established RRG and NRG), Goodman, Sharma, Wilder, Segal, etc have all climbed at the new so yes the new does belong in the category and is NOT just a sport crag so to say that is a sport crag is completely ignorant, clearly you have not been to the bridge or junkyard or south nuttall area which contain over 90% trad.


I would consider the RRG a sport crag, but there is a vast amount of great quality trad climbing as well.


Reagardless, my overall point was that back then the "legends" were the ones that climbed trad in only a select few areas whereas in MODERN day we have some of the strongest climbers being boulderers (which was just a way of training back then, when it did exist back then) and sport climbers. Think ahead to 5-10 years. who will be the "legends in from this period of time?" Sharma, Ondra, Woods, Diguilian, Honnold, Caldwell, Sigrist, Segal, Wilder, etc.

My point was that in today's age the majority of household CLIMBING names are boulderers and sport climbers NOT trad climbers like in the past. (im leaving alpine routes like the teton, winds, sierras, etc out of this because to me this is a completely different form of climbing that is not solely trad but emcompasses a variety of aspects of different types of climbing and is more alpine that trad or sport)

So yes comparing new-age (preconceived) "sport" areas to old-age trad areas is an accurate comparison in my opinion.
mozeman
Joined Dec 17, 2010
90 points
Nov 1, 2012
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "...
This thread is for arguing about what crag is worst, not best - cut it out and stay on topic! Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Joined Jan 1, 2001
23,502 points
Nov 1, 2012
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV
J Johns wrote:
Never climbed at Eldo but you just dont see legends, or many people at all, talking about the ultra classic line they put up in Eldo. I don't know what you consider a legend but let me name a few. Pat Ament Royal Robbins Layton Kor Chuck Pratt Larry Dalke Roger Briggs Jim Erickson Bob Culp Lynn Hill and most recently Matt Segal David Woods Just to name a few people that put up a small handful of routes in Eldo. Maybe these aren't legends to you but in my book they are all on very high pedestals


Make no mistake; Lynn Hill is legendary.
Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Joined Aug 15, 2008
357 points
Nov 1, 2012
eureka ha
Tony B wrote:
This thread is for arguing about what crag is worst, not best - cut it out and stay on topic!

Well I tried to bring up how devils lake sucked and people got offended at that one too! just can't win
mozeman
Joined Dec 17, 2010
90 points
Nov 1, 2012
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "...
mozeman wrote:
Well I tried to bring up how devils lake sucked and people got offended at that one too! just can't win

I was with you. The whole state and all of it's neighbors suck for climbers.
Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Joined Jan 1, 2001
23,502 points
Nov 2, 2012
...love the one you're with... matt davies
Joined Mar 9, 2007
25 points
Nov 2, 2012
Magic Ed
mozeman wrote:
Well I tried to bring up how devils lake sucked and people got offended at that one too! just can't win


Problem is you've never been to Devil's Lake so you really shouldn't make comments about what you don't know about.

And make no mistake--there is some fine climbing in the mid-west--even in Minnesota and Illinois.
Ed Wright
Joined May 14, 2006
332 points
Nov 2, 2012
eureka ha
Ed Wright wrote:
Problem is you've never been to Devil's Lake so you really shouldn't make comments about what you don't know about. And make no mistake--there is some fine climbing in the mid-west--even in Minnesota and Illinois.



Haven't climbed in Indiana, Florida, Kansas, Michigan, or New Jersey but that doesnt mean the climbing there is good. I can honestly say it sucks in all those places. Besides, what makes you the person that says I have not climbed on quartzite before, let alone been to devils lake?


I feel as if by your logic no one on this forum can accurately post because no one has been on EVERY single route in Eldo and most other places. Just because someone has not climbed a route, or even been to an area (for which you have no idea whether or not I have ever even been to devils lake) does not mean they cannot voice their opinion or that they do not know anything about the area.I have met people from soIll and other places that have been to devils lake once and tell me they would rather travel the extra 3-4 hours just to go to the red for a WEEKEND. I do not think devils lake is a place to plan a climbing vacation around and for its location it seems like an unlogical place for me, and most of america, to visit (the exceptions being those living within....hmmm let's say.....1-3hours away). I think there are certain crags across america that fit into the category of devils lake. . . I will give you it seems to be an excellent HOME crag but not one to plan a trip around and therefore to me it is just another uniteresting stop in wisconsin.
mozeman
Joined Dec 17, 2010
90 points
Nov 2, 2012
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "...
mozeman wrote:
Haven't climbed in Indiana, Florida, Kansas, Michigan, or New Jersey but that doesnt mean the climbing there is good. I can honestly say it sucks in all those places.

Uhhh... I can vouch for IN and MI.
IN: Kickapoo falls closed in the 80's and Unlikely Wall is a 35' road cut with maybe 20 routes, if that is still accessible. Climbing is OUTLAWED unless gathering nuts mushrooms or berries...
MI: Well, if Grand Ledge is your star crag... might as well go somewhere in IN.

Yup, been there. Both sucketh royally. Moved here to CO for a reason.
Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Joined Jan 1, 2001
23,502 points
Nov 2, 2012
Skiing around.
Ed Wright wrote:
Problem is you've never been to Devil's Lake so you really shouldn't make comments about what you don't know about.

Never tried heroin, pretty sure that stuff sucks.....
I'm also under the impression this is not called the "Defend against crag blasphemers thread"
Darren in Vegas
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 13, 2006
2,213 points
Nov 2, 2012
Magic Ed
OK, now we know you've never been to Devil's Lake so you're basing your opinion on something you heard but haven't experienced. Sooner or later you'll get a chance to check it out and you will be pleasantly surprised.

The reason many Illinoians would rather drive the extra hours to the Southern sandstone is because of the bolts. Devil's Lake is a staunchly traditional stronghold.
Ed Wright
Joined May 14, 2006
332 points
Nov 2, 2012
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "...
Ed Wright wrote:
OK, now we know you've never been to Devil's Lake so you're basing your opinion on something you heard but haven't experienced. Sooner or later you'll get a chance to check it out and you will be pleasantly surprised. The reason many Illinoians would rather drive the extra hours to the Southern sandstone is because of the bolts. Devil's Lake is a staunchly traditional stronghold.

Not just bolts, but overhangs and pockets. D.L. is thin and vertical, which is not en vogue these days.
Funny memory from DL... in college, convincing a very lovely young lady friend of mine, who I happened to notice on the beach had not quite clasped the top of her bikini quite right in back that I did not believe that she could skip a rock.
Still the topic of giggles all around. She picked up that rock and started with "oh yeah?!?!"
I felt and and tried to stop her, but was laughing so hard... "No, T____, you don't really want to ..."

Well, she sure showed us... that she could skip a rock.
Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Joined Jan 1, 2001
23,502 points
Nov 2, 2012
eureka ha
Ed Wright wrote:
OK, now we know you've never been to Devil's Lake so you're basing your opinion on something you heard but haven't experienced. Sooner or later you'll get a chance to check it out and you will be pleasantly surprised. The reason many Illinoians would rather drive the extra hours to the Southern sandstone is because of the bolts. Devil's Lake is a staunchly traditional stronghold.


Jackson Falls has some fine trad lines, so does HCR for those living in far soILL. So dont give me that crap. Climbing is climbing and good climbing is good climbing. Several of people I have met have spent the entire weekend at long wall climbing nothing but perfect sandstone splitters. Reagardless if I have been to Devils Falls or not, I can say with 100% certainty it is not worth going to unless for some god-forsaken reason I have to be in Wisconsin for an extended period of time.

Either way, it seems as if you are the only one defending devils lake and saying that it home to the best rock on the planet. Yes people may enjoy the climbing there but it is not worth visiting for the sole purpose of climbing, too many other great areas surrounding it to travel to instead. This is all even ASSUMING that the rock is not complete shit.
mozeman
Joined Dec 17, 2010
90 points
Nov 2, 2012
Magic Ed
Yeah, a lot of my best memories of Devil's Lake have nothing to do with climbing. Ed Wright
Joined May 14, 2006
332 points
Nov 2, 2012
Looking at a 5.7 crack with Nick
Devil's Lake is great. I would say its worth a 12 hour drive for a week. It is a very fun place to get scared. The rock is great, both quartzite AND sandstone. However, the height can be underwhelming. Add in the bouldering though, its more competitive. Remembering the bouldering boom is in full swing here, it is only going to get better.

For the record, I love Eldo. So.
Josh Olson
From Durango, CO
Joined Mar 7, 2010
362 points
Nov 2, 2012
Magic Ed
mozeman wrote:
Jackson Falls has some fine trad lines, so does HCR for those living in far soILL. So dont give me that crap. Climbing is climbing and good climbing is good climbing. Several of people I have met have spent the entire weekend at long wall climbing nothing but perfect sandstone splitters. Reagardless if I have been to Devils Falls or not, I can say with 100% certainty it is not worth going to unless for some god-forsaken reason I have to be in Wisconsin for an extended period of time. Either way, it seems as if you are the only one defending devils lake and saying that it home to the best rock on the planet. Yes people may enjoy the climbing there but it is not worth visiting for the sole purpose of climbing, too many other great areas surrounding it to travel to instead. This is all even ASSUMING that the rock is not complete shit.


I know there's good trad climbing down there--I've climbed a lot of it at Jackson Falls, Tennessee Wall, Sunset, the Red, the New-- but everyone I know who goes down there from the mid-west goes for the bolted routes. After all, they can climb all kinds of superb cracks at Devil's Lake!
Ed Wright
Joined May 14, 2006
332 points
Nov 3, 2012
eureka ha
Ed Wright wrote:
I know there's good trad climbing down there--I've climbed a lot of it at Jackson Falls, Tennessee Wall, Sunset, the Red, the New-- but everyone I know who goes down there from the mid-west goes for the bolted routes. After all, they can climb all kinds of superb cracks at Devil's Lake!


Goes to T-wall for bolts? Lol


(joking of course, I know what you mean although I beg to differ and would climb trad at the new, t-wall, or red for that matter, any day of the year over devils lake)
mozeman
Joined Dec 17, 2010
90 points
Nov 3, 2012
Mashers Tower
so this one guy is seriously ALL ABOUT DEVILS LAKE huh

do you work for their chamber of commerce or something lol
Cornelius Jefferson
Joined Apr 5, 2006
163 points
Nov 3, 2012
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "...
mozeman wrote:
Goes to T-wall for bolts? Lol (joking of course, I know what you mean although I beg to differ and would climb trad at the new, t-wall, or red for that matter, any day of the year over devils lake)

At Purdue I lived 5 hours from either DL or the Red.
There were no bolts at The Red yet. I went to The Red unless it was too hot to do so.
Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Joined Jan 1, 2001
23,502 points
Nov 3, 2012
Magic Ed
CJC wrote:
so this one guy is seriously ALL ABOUT DEVILS LAKE huh do you work for their chamber of commerce or something lol


Actually I clip bolts on limestone 8 months out of the year but I firmly believe that Devil's Lake is a true gem with the best rock on the planet and I find it interesting that most of those who say I'm wrong have never been there.
Ed Wright
Joined May 14, 2006
332 points
Nov 3, 2012
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
Eldo totally sucks. The holds face the wrong way. They can be polished. The gear can be tricky. The rock can be loose. Bird Shit on many routes. Poison ivy and rattle snakes. Grades are hard. Totally sandbagged. I could go on. I hate it. In fact I'm gonna hate it all day today. Hopefully I can hate it all day tomorrow, too. Greg D
From Here
Joined Apr 5, 2006
960 points
Nov 3, 2012
my tat design.  All Rights Reserved.
i had a world class stack of pancakes yesterday. i'll never eat another tuna salad sandwich.

ps discredit my opinion, i've never climbed 5.12.
Joe Puglisi
From Glenwood, CO
Joined Apr 16, 2012
401 points
Nov 3, 2012
I was pretty bummed when they didn't greenlight my...
T-Wall is unique for the steepness. But there are a ton of killer cracks. In Pursuit of Excellence, Golden Locks, Razor Worm, Digital Macabe, Crack Attack, Finger-Locking' Good, Precious Ore The list goes on and on and on. willeslinger
From Golden, Colorado
Joined Jul 20, 2010
42 points
Nov 4, 2012
Freaky Deaky Frog Juice
How did we get so off topic here? Perhaps I should bring the forum back on course... What is your opinion (regarding a crag), about everyone else's opinion (if a crag is "World Class", or if we get down to it, decent enough to touch your holy hands)? Please feel free to spew one sided nonsense, get defensive, or state your opinion as though it were indisputable fact.... If all else fails, please write a note, send a text, befriend and message via facebook, articulate anonymously on MP, send smoke signals, sit on a "big bro", or yell really loud at mother earth and tell her that she really fucked up on "said crag" and that you could have designed it much better. Thank you! Danjerous87
Joined Dec 2, 2010
415 points


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