Sorry, I don't think I'm the one on the 'high horse' here. And no, I'm not associated with a rescue group and don't have any rescue certifications. But don't take that to mean I've not been involved in or done rescues in over three decades of climbing, or that 'professional training' is necessary to objectively evaluate what I saw. Over those decades I've seen and assisted in several incidents (just like climbers did in this one) where the 'professionally trained' rescuers placed themselves and the victim in deadly peril and needed assistance to extricate themselves from the situation. I'm not saying that is the case with RMR rescues, but simply that in this incident, and several I witnessed in the mid-70's, that RMR's response was out of scale to the technical requirements of the rescue. And the fact that none of the rescuers or bystanders were injured this time doesn't mean that will always be the case when fielding similar numbers.

Could you guys take the whole rescue team discussion to another forum? I'd like to have one place to go to just hear about how the climbers are doing. The rescue team discussion belongs in a separate forum for those who are interested.

That's fine, I don't really have anything further to add and do very much wish the climbers well in what I hope will be as speedy a recovery as possible.

John, thanks for the report update from your wife. Hopefully today is a good day on a road to recovery also..!

Best Cheers & positive wishes ~Kirra

Joe, unfortunately, this really is the best place to address the issue of climber & rescue safety between both communities.

The issue was brought up by climbers and have not yet really indicated where there was a safety concern. Other than to keep repeating there was a concern based on ?? I guess the amount of personnel that were just staging systems for scree and a high-line and not committed to the wall. But in any case, climbers need to make this situation safe for all rescue personnel -- it just doesn't hold water.

Mike, the points brought up really don't have a basis; they are not relying on anything that will make a rescue better or safer. Regretfully, you wrote a post that doesn't have a foundation about how a successful rescue is performed. I've read the entire context of this thread; the implication wasn't about just one aspect, the manner of mtn rescue was questioned & attacked for no beneficial purpose.

Clearly stated, RMRG is not above criticism; these mtn rescue teams hold themselves to account as well as many other outside organizations that review what they do. Acting like they could care less really gets it with me.

I don't know Chris but I certainly wish him
well in his recovery, keep us posted how he is
doing.

Also- I think it would be really cool to have
the eldo cookie girl bring him some fresh baked
cookies...Does anyone know the cookie girl ?

I think the most productive idea coming out of this thread is keeping a list of trundle-worthy blocks that can be brought down under controlled conditions. Something along the lines of a crag clean-up day where areas can be blocked off below the fall zone. Seems pretty clear that the block that led to this accident (and others I'm sure) was suspect for a long time, and if it had been removed under controlled conditions this accident probably wouldn't have happened. Maybe a specific forum here to start a list? May as well make something positive come out of this accident.

VERY well said Mic, Mark and Wayne. While It's very easy to sit back and say what we/you/me/whomever would have or should have done is easy to say. The fact is, at least to me, the BOSAR gang(massive though they may be) got er' done. PERIOD. I actually like that they have alot of newbies on hand to learn from the more experienced so that when some are retiring, there will always be others to VOLUNTEER to come rescue my ass. All critisisms aside, good job BOSAR(ya' buncha trauma freaks).

Slimy Spoon: wedged block pitch 3
Northwest Corner Bastille: detached flake pitch 3
Wind Ridge: flake on 2nd walk-off escape

All,

A group of us went to visit Chris at St. Anthony's last night. He's is in great spirits and hanging out with Mindy (our climbing doctor and angel) and his mom.

He's way stronger than I can imagine - I'd be crying like a newborn at this point from the pain. Surgery Sunday (8 hours), Tues and then Thursday (4 hours) and next is Sunday.

The block was in fact more coffee table sized and landed on him when he was sitting. So it landed in his lap and stayed there for quite some time. Luckily there were some legendary Eldo locals on nearby routes to come to his aid.

Chris wanted to clarify that without RMR he'd not be here right now. He is very unhappy to hear the amount of negative talk about RMR. He's pretty disappointed that we'd trash talk a group that none of us are participating in. I believe his exact words had a lot more explitives than that. He can elaborate later when he can get to a computer.

Good news Ray..!! Thanks for the update, best wishes ~Kirra

This is just a quick shout out to RMR and all my rescuers. You guys are the best and I owe you my life. I want you all to know how thankful I am for the rescue you provided me. I cant believe all the bullshit that gets talked about on this site. The fact that people are bad mouthing RMR blows my mind, it is completely illogical.

As for a quick update, I have been out of the ICU for a week and I believe I finished my last surgery for this hospital visit today (Tuesday the 13th). I had 8 surgeries in 16 days it has been pretty wild. In the next week I will probably be going to in-patient rehab for a while either in Denver or Boulder but I am not sure yet. Chris Lee is out of the hospital and went back work on Monday.

Thanks for all the support, it has meant a great deal.
See you on the rock!

Chris-

Great to hear such positive words from you! Keep it up your attitude and hard work will carry you through this! Rock On!!!

best wishes. . . . paz y amor

Wayne

Best wishes Chris. We're al looking forward to having you back up here in Boulder. But until then, enjoy the jello.

Hi Chris.

We met at a birthday party in September and I felt terrible when I heard of your accident. I am very relieved to hear that you are healing well!

Rocky Mountain Rescue also came to my aid when I decked at Castle Rock and shattered my radius bone. They actually arrived before the ambulance, and my accident was on Labor Day (a few years ago). They all left their own holiday parties to come to help me. I will be forever grateful for their care. Bless those guys!

The accident in Eldorado Canyon on April 27, 2008 raised an interesting series of questions in internet forums regarding the ensuing rescue effort, and about mountain rescue operations and techniques more broadly. Many of these questions are addressed in our “Operational FAQ”. Because rescues often benefit from the participation of bystanding climbers, we encourage those of you who are interested to review this information, with the hope that it will make it easier for you to assist us should the occasion arise.

We have posted a narrative account of the rescue on April 27. Historically we have tried to publicize lessons-learned from climbing accidents, when the lessons are significant and not obvious. In the case of this particular accident, the climbers involved have addressed the lessons-learned better than we can; however, due to interest in the climbing community we though it worthwhile to capture the events of the rescue, and the lessons-learned, into a single document.

If you find that our FAQ or our description of the April 27 rescue lead you to additional questions, feel free to contact RMRG. If you have interest in dedicating your time to assist lost and injured hikers, bikers, climbers and other people in need in the outdoors of Boulder County, we are always looking for new members. All of our meetings and practices are open to the public, and our schedule can be found at: www.rockymountainrescue.org/get_involved/CurrentTrainingSche>>> (always subject to change due to rescue responses).

I want to express my personal gratitude to all who have said supportive words about RMRG on this forum.

Cordially,

Tim Holden
Group Leader
Rocky Mountain Rescue Group

Thanks for posting this, Tim. It answered a lot of questions I had formed over the years seeing rescues done in Eldorado. It's pretty clear to me now that the rigging choices your group has made over time have proven themselves to be the best options. I thought about trying to take a litter down the Redgarden trail by foot and realize what a disaster that would be. You take one foot off that trail and you are reeling in loose scree. Small landslides on the whole scree slope happen every weekend, sometimes causing boulders to bounce a ridiculously long way downhill.