Doing what makes you happy

rockandice.com/lates-news/w…

Great article, great people, but there is an idea I start to wonder about after reading this statement in that article.

"If I learned anything during that time, it’s that you have to live your own life and do exactly what makes you the most happy, because if you don’t you’ll never fully develop into the person you were meant to be."

The part that got me thinking was this idea of "do exactly what makes you the most happy." Especially the "what makes you happy"

This article, and like many other outdoor articles, focuses on the process of pursing dreams and coming to know who you are and what you want in life. But I start to wonder: When does self-actualization stop and self-serving begin? Is the trend now to be self-serving under the false cover of one trying to reach self-actualization?

I'm not saying the interviewee in the article, nor the many people who take up either lifestyle are being self serving, but statements like the one in the article have the potential of fostering a "self-serving" attitude, where "truly living" and "finding out who you are and what you can do" become self indulging, parasitic processes.

EDIT:

Just adding a little more emphasis on this being an insightful discussion about ideas, rather than comparing groups of people.

Methinks you're overthinking this. You get to decide when you've crossed over into self-centeredness.

There have been threads here on MP about the pros and cons of a dirtbag lifestyle. You might want to read those.

What if heroin makes me happy?

FrankPS wrote:You get to decide when you've crossed over into self-centeredness.

I love the irony of this statement in contrast to my post.

I am well aware of the pros and cons discussion about dirtbagging, which could be had of any lifestyle. I am more interested in the discussion I presented above. And to your quote, Do we really decide when we've crossed over?

If you've summed the discussion up for yourself, that's great.

Everything any person does is selfish. Any choice you make, you are applying your thoughts, values, and beliefs to maximize your perceived/experienced benefit.

A thing is "Selfish" only when seen from the outside not to match up with the observers thoughts/values/beliefs.

A person who donates to a charity and one who does not are both acting in a selfish manner to fulfill their desires and needs.

For example - recently, I stopped to help someone who's car was stuck in a ditch. I did so because it made me feel good. It was a more positive experience for me than the other option of ignoring him and getting to work on time. For me, it was a selfish act.

When you recognize this - that all your choices are selfish - you can then look at your values, beliefs, and choices as well as how you perceive/experience the benefits of those things (such as if the benefits match up to your expectations) and shape them to have longer term affects for your own happiness.

Everything you do is self serving. There is no point where it "starts".

^^^^
Wow, that's a pretty nihilist response. I understand your point and agree with it to a limited extent. I just think you take your idea and run off a cliff with it.

I think the OP is over thinking this too, but only because this self-actualization quote is coming from a guy who was lucky enough to be able to profit from his natural ability. I too lived out of the back of my truck in my twenties, working only long enough to save a little money to go do what I wanted. Unfortunately I'm not very good at much and eventually had to do the unthinkable and go back to school. At a certain age living out of the back of your truck isn't admirable. If I heard a quote like that coming from an engineer, a teacher or a carpenter, I'd be more impressed.

Larry S - An interesting perspective.

If you want, you can use only one word to define all actions as varying degrees of selfishness.I would think as a society we could agree on some of those actions as being defined as something other than selfishness. If you were to live under one definition, that being selfishness, There would have to be varying classifications or degrees of the word to be all encompassing as you propose. The question then becomes what part of the definition would define your actions?

Again, an interesting perspective, but gets to be a little too neutralizing.

I would argue that climbing along with other most activities are self-serving. While I hold the process of self exploration very dear to my heart and I feel that it has had a huge impact on the person I have become I understand that I am not doing anything to serve anyone else. Even if you are serving the climbing community (trail work, FA's, route work....) it is only helping other people serve themselves.

I do agree with the idea of doing what one finds valuable to furthering their understanding of themselves and the world around them. Self-serving or altruistic does not matter to me as long as people are not dicks to one another. With that said, in the end, in terms of the biggest picture, our lives are of very little consequence, so none of this matters.

Larry S wrote: For example - recently, I stopped to help someone who's car was stuck in a ditch. I did so because it made me feel good. It was a more positive experience for me than the other option of ignoring him and getting to work on time. For me, it was a selfish act.

I appreciate that you're aware of that.

question(s):

What if I am not an individual, seperate, from the entirety of the Whole? But rather a drop of water in a vast ocean; can I be selfish? If there is no "I"/self, then can "I" be selfish? Is selfishness always revolving around the concept of "I", the ego? Is selfishness real or a concept created by the mind to make sense of something else?

Larry is exactly correct, though the word "selfish" has unfortunate connotations, and our brains are wired to have social emotions like empathy, concern for others' well being and enjoyment of the process of helping them, etc..because the effects of these emotions on our behavior are good for our OWN survival and reproduction..

These emotions diminish as the levels of genetic separation get larger (our offspring's well-being may actually FEEL more important to US than our own) or levels of social utility of the other people get smaller. They are also not directly proportional to the pain going on in other people's lives ie if I read a headline that 100 people died in Africa, I don't feel twice as bad if the headline says 200 people died instead..

It does sound pretty depressing sometimes but it is what it is, we can only directly feel what's happening in our own nervous systems..

You should have know better than to ask a bunch of climbers a deep philosophical question. Some people on this thread seem to believe they possess some epistemological knowledge that others better equipped have pondered for far longer only to arrive at disputed conclusions or, if they're honest, a knowledge that one can never know for certain. If only Aristotle had Mountain Project to answer all those big issues for him.

Wow I'm impressed with this thread. I am also one that thinks that 99.9% of things people do they do for their benifit even when it benifits others greatly. Not to get real extream here but I think the only action that I would say is completely selfless is sacrificing your life for someone else's, ecspecially in the case of a atheist.

This is all well and fine, but what is the meaning of life?

Being able to admit that you're doing something just because you like to do it is a good thing. I don't remember who it was or in what documentary, but I recall a video interview with some famous mountaineer on Everest or K2 talking about the fact that you cannot really justify climbing a mountain for any purpose other than the fact that you enjoy it and want to get to the top. I think that's a good reality to hold on to. I see a trend now with amateur endurance athletes claiming they are doing what they do for some good cause. "I'm running Ironman to support cancer research!". B.S. You're doing it because you want to and you're tagging some charity on to make you feel less self-centered about spending 20 hours per week in solitary training. Might be good for the charity, but you're being dishonest about your motives.

If you're just honest about why you're doing something then you dont have to keep making excuses and it just might make it more easy to prioritize your life. Every time you say "yes" to doing one thing you're saying "no" to many other things, so be honest and deal with the consequences. If you dont like who you are and what you prioritize, then change it.

I think this article in the Atlantic has a say in the matter......

theatlantic.com/national/ar…

In my opinion, Frankl is a must-read. If climbing fulfills "your pursuit" so be it. For me, I climb 5.11+ sport on a good day and chase other dreams to find meaning. Climbing is a good way to clear my head. Frankl would argue that selfish living ends in dissatisfaction and being part of something bigger than ones self is necessary for a meaningful life.

Matt

FrankPS wrote:This is all well and fine, but what is the meaning of life?

Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.

Phillip Morris wrote: Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.

I was hoping it was something like that.

Hmm. Making an argument that everyone is selfish because we feel good with whatever choice we make is missing the point. The reason that the word "selfish" exists is because some people are assholes.
Stopping to help someone with car trouble is not the same as not stopping to help someone with car trouble.
Deeds rule.

Larry S wrote:Everything any person does is selfish. Any choice you make, you are applying your thoughts, values, and beliefs to maximize your perceived/experienced benefit. A thing is "Selfish" only when seen from the outside not to match up with the observers thoughts/values/beliefs. A person who donates to a charity and one who does not are both acting in a selfish manner to fulfill their desires and needs. For example - recently, I stopped to help someone who's car was stuck in a ditch. I did so because it made me feel good. It was a more positive experience for me than the other option of ignoring him and getting to work on time. For me, it was a selfish act. When you recognize this - that all your choices are selfish - you can then look at your values, beliefs, and choices as well as how you perceive/experience the benefits of those things (such as if the benefits match up to your expectations) and shape them to have longer term affects for your own happiness. Everything you do is self serving. There is no point where it "starts".

Not completely true. Some people do stuff they don't want to because they feel it is right, not because it makes them feel good.

Haha zing! What an unusually productive discussion for MP. I believe Ben and Fat Dad hit the nail on the head and of course Phillip Morris knows what's best In life for everyone.