Do you speak up when seeing someone making mistakes?
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I still consider myself new to climbing because it seems like I learn new things every time I go out... |
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You'll get two types of response to this: |
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always say something but take care to realize how you say it may make the difference in whether or not someone listens. If they dont listen its not your fault if something bad happens. |
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What sucks about that situation is the guy's decision to be a snotty fuck put the climber in more danger than was necessary. If one of my partners reacted like that, I wouldn't climb with them anymore. |
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He probably didn't know what backclipping was, or the potential dangers and therefore didn't say anything. There are a lot of people who don't know anything about climbing out there being cool. It's not dangerous or knowledge intensive after all. |
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Climbers that you need to give advice to tend to be defensive and insecure (they know they're noobs, but they're trying to pretend they're not), so chances are you won't get a good reception. |
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Saw a girl backclip 5 draws and finally when she reached the crux I shouted up to her. She didn't really know what I was talking about. |
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Scott McMahon wrote:Saw a girl backclip 5 draws and finally when she reached the crux I shouted up to her. She didn't really know what I was talking about. Scary stuff.exactly |
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Last time I said anything to anyone it was minor and I might not have had the best tact. The funny thing was the guy's response to me: |
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I safety or belayer and climber seem cludless on climbing, I speak up. Otherwise I let it be, as many don't want beta or opinions, even if helpful. |
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Are you sure those are back-clipped? It is hard to tell but the first one looks like the draw may just be twisted and it is clipped correctly. The second one is harder to tell. |
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I like to take this approach: if that exact desicion/mistake that they are making will result in me having to be apart of a rescue operation, I will say something. If there doing something that is stupid, but safe, I will let it be. |
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unless they are in obvious and immediate danger, i dont bother generally ... |
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Brian wrote:Are you sure those are back-clipped? It is hard to tell but the first one looks like the draw may just be twisted and it is clipped correctly. The second one is harder to tell.Yeah - that was a pic from far away with my phone - they are not twisted :( |
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Tony B wrote: When you said 'several decades', I thought you meant 'several decades.' I always thought that 'several' meant more than 2." Him: (nothing).I always thought several meant more than one, although exactly two would be an uncommon usage. I looked at a dictionary: more than one and more than two are both listed. See merriam-webster.com/diction… ("more than one" is listed before "more than two"). So I'm not so sure about the English lesson in this story, but I've no doubt the actual climbing advice was spot on and the guy should have taken it. |
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Matt Pierce wrote:So - thoughts? Do you say something if you notice a person making mistakes? How about if you see someone making a big mistake at an anchor or something like that?If someone is making a mistake that is putting themselves or someone else in danger I will speak up (as tactfully as possible). It's better to have someone think I'm a jerk than to watch someone get hurt or killed. In your backclipping story I certainly would have said something. One good story I have that comes to mind happened a couple of months ago at the gym. There were these two guys on the lead wall who were just starting to climb. The guy belaying was using a gri gri and obviously had no idea what he was doing (he must have passed the lead belay test using another type of device, or maybe he didn't even take the test, they don't really check at the gym). I watched as the leader reached the first bolt and was imediatly short roped as the belayer tried to just pull the thick gym rope through the gri gri, I thought it was a bit commical, but not too unsafe so I didn't say anything. When the leader reached the second bolt, the belayer decided to change strategies so that he wouldn't short rope the leader, and with his left hand he grabbed the lever on the device and pulled it back, then he let go of the brake strand with his right hand, and started feeding slack to the leader by pulling it up through the device with what should have been his brake hand. There was no gym staff around, so I decided I'd better step in before the leader (who didn't look too confident himself) ended up blowing the clip and decking. After the leader had clipped the bolt and asked for a take I asked the belayer if he'd ever belayed with a gri gri before and he told me that he does all the time. I then mentioned that if the leader had fallen while trying to clip the bolt, the belayer wouldn't have been able to stop him before he hit the ground. To this, the belayer said something like "you realize he is climbing up so he needs slack right?" in a very defensive and butt hurt manner. I told him that I do realize that since I have belayed leaders with a gri gri for over 10 years, and that I wasn't trying to be a jerk, but I didn't want someone to get hurt. At this point, the climber asked to be lowered, and when he got down I offered to show them the correct methods for feeding out slack with a gri gri. I showed them both the new and old methods and emphasized that they should never take their hand off the brake strand while belaying. I could tell that the belayer was very offended, but I'd rather have someone not like me than have someone injured or dead. Neither of them did any more leading that day, so I don't know if they ever tried out the correct method to belay, but I did hear the belayer making some butt hurt comments to one of his friends about the incident later, I thought it was kind of funny. |
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kennoyce wrote: If someone is making a mistake that is putting themselves or someone else in danger I will speak up (as tactfully as possible). It's better to have someone think I'm a jerk than to watch someone get hurt or killed. In your backclipping story I certainly would have said something. One good story I have that comes to mind happened a couple of months ago at the gym. There were these two guys on the lead wall who were just starting to climb. The guy belaying was using a gri gri and obviously had no idea what he was doing (he must have passed the lead belay test using another type of device, or maybe he didn't even take the test, they don't really check at the gym). I watched as the leader reached the first bolt and was imediatly short roped as the belayer tried to just pull the thick gym rope through the gri gri, I thought it was a bit commical, but not too unsafe so I didn't say anything. When the leader reached the second bolt, the belayer decided to change strategies so that he wouldn't short rope the leader, and with his left hand he grabbed the lever on the device and pulled it back, then he let go of the brake strand with his right hand, and started feeding slack to the leader by pulling it up through the device with what should have been his brake hand. There was no gym staff around, so I decided I'd better step in before the leader (who didn't look too confident himself) ended up blowing the clip and decking. After the leader had clipped the bolt and asked for a take I asked the belayer if he'd ever belayed with a gri gri before and he told me that he does all the time. I then mentioned that if the leader had fallen while trying to clip the bolt, the belayer wouldn't have been able to stop him before he hit the ground. To this, the belayer said something like "you realize he is climbing up so he needs slack right?" in a very defensive and butt hurt manner. I told him that I do realize that since I have belayed leaders with a gri gri for over 10 years, and that I wasn't trying to be a jerk, but I didn't want someone to get hurt. At this point, the climber asked to be lowered, and when he got down I offered to show them the correct methods for feeding out slack with a gri gri. I showed them both the new and old methods and emphasized that they should never take their hand off the brake strand while belaying. I could tell that the belayer was very offended, but I'd rather have someone not like me than have someone injured or dead. Neither of them did any more leading that day, so I don't know if they ever tried out the correct method to belay, but I did hear the belayer making some butt hurt comments to one of his friends about the incident later, I thought it was kind of funny.Thanks for sharing - reminds me of when I took the lead belay test at the gym. I guess the staff dude thought I wasnt standing close enough to the wall (I was about 2 feet away) and told me so in a very matter-of-fact kind of way. It was a little picky in my opinion - I wasnt doing anything unsafe etc. But I let it go - no biggie - just closed the gap... |
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Matt Pierce wrote: Thanks for sharing - reminds me of when I took the lead belay test at the gym. I guess the staff dude thought I wasnt standing close enough to the wall (I was about 2 feet away) and told me so in a very matter-of-fact kind of way. It was a little picky in my opinion - I wasnt doing anything unsafe etc. But I let it go - no biggie - just closed the gap...That right there is the biggest way to tell if someone is a noob or not. If someone gets all butt-hurt when advice is offered, they are most certainly a noob. You showed your non-noob-ness by just taking the advice even though you didn't think it necessary. |
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one way to get your point across is to passive-aggressively post it on mp. |
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It's a really tough decision to make really, but every time I go out I see someone put themselves in perilious positions. |
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I always watch what's going on around me. If i see minor mistakes, i'll try and judge the risk, attitude and experience and politely and humbly speak up. Polite and Humble are important. But i have had occasions where talk was not enough or not quick enough and intervention has been needed. |