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Dirtbags vs. The Corporate World, and all that other BS

Original Post
Dylan D · · Asheville, NC, USA · Joined May 2011 · Points: 35

It seems to me that this whole notion of: you either have the adventurous spirit, you go full on and say 'f*** you' to the Man, or you just abide as another drone, is a bit dated and we need to let it go.
Climbing is the main culprit of romanticizing meager living so that you can get a few more days of climbing in. I believe that this mentality certainly used to be valid, so maybe its just hardwired into our climbing DNA, but there are so many opportunities to climb/bike/ski/travel while working a respectable job now. I mean, how many people on here are able to climb everyday after work or get in 50+ ski days while working a full time job? They have not sold out, and we need to stop acting like EVERYONE (ya know, PEOPLE) just takes the path that society gives them. Travel blogs are so filled with these platitudes, acting like everyone who works a job is some miserable schmuck that deserves his unhappiness. I think we need to realize that the job market has been spiced up in the last 30 years with a lot more opportunities for balancing work and play.

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
Dylan Dwyer wrote:It seems to me that this whole notion of: you either have the adventurous spirit, you go full on and say 'f*** you' to the Man, or you just abide as another drone, is a bit dated and we need to let it go. Climbing is the main culprit of romanticizing meager living so that you can get a few more days of climbing in. I believe that this mentality certainly used to be valid, so maybe its just hardwired into our climbing DNA, but there are so many opportunities to climb/bike/ski/travel while working a respectable job now. I mean, how many people on here are able to climb everyday after work or get in 50+ ski days while working a full time job? They have not sold out, and we need to stop acting like EVERYONE (ya know, PEOPLE) just takes the path that society gives them. Travel blogs are so filled with these platitudes, acting like everyone who works a job is some miserable schmuck that deserves his unhappiness. I think we need to realize that the job market has been spiced up in the last 30 years with a lot more opportunities for balancing work and play.
There are plenty of people that are not living the life you describe. Remember, for most, the economy still sucks ass. People are working more hours for less pay with a higher cost of living, all while trying to improve their qualifications (e.g. master's degree) just so they can keep their job. The sea is still at a whole gale, and those who cant swim are not provided life jackets.
Xan Calonne · · Yucca Valley · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 61

20 kN, you are absolutely correct; however, your response is beyond the scope of the op's post. He simply (and correctly) asserted that in this day and age it is very feasible for a climber to engage in a full-time "socially acceptable" job and still maintain a high level of climbing fitness and achievement.

Winston, you are just plain wrong. There are numerous examples of climbers sending hard while maintaining 40+ hour gigs. To "commit full-time" and to work full-time are not mutually exclusive concepts. Contrary to popular opinion, 5.hard does not require a sweet van and a free ride.

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
Xan Calonne wrote: He simply (and correctly) asserted that in this day and age it is very feasible for a climber to engage in a full-time "socially acceptable" job and still maintain a high level of climbing fitness and achievement.
I dont think there has ever been a time in which workers absolutely had to choose "fuck the man, I am climbing" or "fuck climbing, I am working." There has always been some in-between. I am not sure I have seen anyone on here say that they dont think it is possible to climb and work.

However, I think there were far more opportunities to live a chill working life and solid climbing life in the 2000s than they are now. As I said before, full-time workers have less time off today than they did a few years ago, which means there are increasingly less opportunities for full-time workers to climb, not more, and judging by the cost-of-living inflation relative to increasing income disparity, I dont think the storm is going to let up anytime soon.
Happiegrrrl · · Gunks · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 60
...far more opportunities to live a chill working life and solid climbing life in the 2000s than they are now.

The 2000's in an historical context? Oh, does that make me feel old - hahah

The all or nothing perspective is just the way someone who is on the extreme end medicates the emotional suffering they endure. Living to the extreme - either way - will make it impossible to participate in the conversation of a balanced life.

That said - if a person feels a sting when being pelted with barbs of "you're a slave/you're wasting your life," then it might be a good idea to step back and take a look. Maybe we have taken a few steps closer to that extreme than is best for our emotional balance.
M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

I bet "the man" gets his days on the slopes and rock in all while profiting off the backs of the worker bees. Possibly something to strive for if mommy and daddy arent paying for all the adventures.

camhead · · Vandalia, Appalachia · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,240
Winston O'Boogie wrote: You are not going to free climb El Cap while you work 40 hours a week, I don't care if your working for YSAR.
El Cap has been freed by 40/hr week 9-5ers.
NickinCO · · colorado · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 155

hmmm... I work a 56 hour week, climb 3 to 4 days a week. From the beginning of the season until mid-january I got about 30 days in snowboarding. Would have easily passed 50 without making the decision to try and let my back heal. Considering I don't have a college degree I make pretty good money with good benefits. I don't work in the corporate world, but no one is telling you that you have to. There are a lot of choices in life... In the end the consequences of your decisions fall on no one but you. Not the government, not your mom for not paying your way, those are just excuses.

Dana Walters 1 · · Pacific Northwest · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 212

I work 40 hours a week am a competitive regional road racer and manage to climb 5 days a week with most of those days being outside. It can be done if you prioritize right and don't have a family.

JCM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 115

I think there may be a significant geographic component to these perspectives. Working full time in a "real job" doesn't preclude climbing a lot, progressing as a climber, and climbing "hard" (whatever that means to you), but living in the right location and having a good job situation figured out seem to be the two most crucial components to making this work. It is easy to understand why 20 KN is giving this bitter perspective. He lives on an isolated island with a resultantly slow economy, a brutally high cost of living, and essentially no legal climbing options (since the state closed their land to climbing). Trying to make a living and climb a lot in that environment would be nearly impossible. If he were to move to somewhere like SLC--tons of nearby climbing, reasonable cost of living, economy on the upswing--he would probably feel a lot differently about the possibility of working and climbing.

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103
Winston O'Boogie wrote: I totally agree with this. For anyone I think it is just a question of priorities in life. You are not going to free climb El Cap while you work 40 hours a week, I don't care if your working for YSAR.
you obviously have no idea what you are talking about...
chuffnugget · · Bolder, CO · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 0

One word: Alf

CritConrad · · Bend, OR · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 646

This definitely hits home for me as I just went from guiding "full-time" for the past four years to working full time at a resort. I kind of went through a little freak-out phase of "OMG I'm never gonna be able to climb ever again!"
I'm still learning how to balance work with staying strong and trying projects that are way out of my league. It still is hard because I dont work a set schedule, yet I work 40 hours/week. So I have to be really intentional about when I can squeeze some climbing time into my week. I've still got big plans for the spring, so here's to working full time, staying strong, and crushing rock climbs!!

Andy P. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 190

Dylan, to get back to your main point, here is a thought I have always had.

If we were to go back in time and imagine the overarching messages that were part of the parental narrative over the past century, we may gain some insight. What I am talking about here is: what are the messages communicated to children by parents and media?

Stepping back into the great depression, 30's & 40's - during this time kids were being taught the importance of having a job, ANY job. Work was scare, thus the "winners" were people who had any form of work. It didn't matter if you were an auto mechanic or an executive, worker=winner ; unemployed=loser

This generation of "work=win" of kids grew up and began raising their own kids in the 50's 60 & 70's. During this time work was plentiful. No longer was work the goal, it was having a "better job." Now auto mechanics and production line workers were just ok, but the "winners" worked in offices. They made decisions - managers, people-who-could-type, etc. Now it was good work=win ; labor=loser.

This good work=win messages was communicated to a generation of children who grew up aspiring to be at the top of the corporate chain. But there is a problem: office zombies, work drone, cubicles... Perhaps the best description of this comes from the comic Dilbert. There is a tremendous pushback against the "Dilberts" of our society due to all of the broken dreams of this generation, who grew up thinking that a suit & tie + computer = success. We see that in sitcoms and movies like "Fight Club." It was now passionate work=win ; Dilberts=loser.

That brings us to the current generation. Kids 5-35 years old today were raised during this pushback - these kids are raised with the overarching message that passionate work=win. "Be yourself" (Mr. Rodgers/Sesame Street), "follow your heart." After all, the Dilberts are now the losers, instead it is those few people who "love" their work that are the winners.

This message, which seemed great in the 90's & 00's is I think what you are talking about, Dylan. Fortunately, I think that the inherent toxicity of this message is becoming apparent midst the economic downturn. I think that the new message that is evolving is that skilled work = win. But it is too early, sociologically, to tell if my hope is right.

TL;DR-
Messages from parents/society told to children Re: work
30's & 40's: all & any work = good ; losers = people w/out jobs
50, 60, 70's: good jobs ($, offices, management) = good ; losers = service industry jobs
80's & 90's: "loving" job, "passion" = win ; losers = Dilberts
Today: ???

Eric Engberg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 0

I'm still waiting for "a leisure class exists on both ends of the social-economic spectrum" = usually that gets thrown in about now.

You can be successful and respected living a balanced lifestyle. If you want to be legendary - Jobs or Harding - you need to focus and concentate,

Andy P. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 190

Everyone's correct "balance" will differ - but mine for a long time was calibrated very poorly. I believed that I could achieve what I wanted by working just 40 hours a week, never putting in the extra effort. Had I been forward thinking enough (in my 18-25 years old phase) to have a skill, such as engineering, medicine, or software engineering, (just a few of many examples) my assumption might have been correct.

Jamespio Piotrowski · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 5

Talk about your "first world problems." We live in N. America (mostly), of course we can climb (bike, ski, hike, mountain bike, collect beanie babies, make miniature furniture, tool leather) a lot and not starve, that's the luck of the effing draw, and we drew the long sticks by being born into the richest culture on the planet. Now thank your parents, and pass on some of that good luck to other people.

NickinCO · · colorado · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 155
James Piotrowski wrote:Talk about your "first world problems." We live in N. America (mostly), of course we can climb (bike, ski, hike, mountain bike, collect beanie babies, make miniature furniture, tool leather) a lot and not starve, that's the luck of the effing draw, and we drew the long sticks by being born into the richest culture on the planet. Now thank your parents, and pass on some of that good luck to other people.
or work hard so you can pass on to future generations what was passed on to you.... Instead of not contributing anything to society and being a slug like plenty of todays youth.
Jamespio Piotrowski · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 5

The moment I see someone complain about "the youth," I know (1) they probably don't spend much time with youth; (2) they've become their parents in that they have already forgotten that they were once exactly like the youth they now denigrate; and, (3) they would probably complain that Elvis' hips are going to make all the girls promiscuous, if that hadn't already been done.

NickinCO · · colorado · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 155
James Piotrowski wrote:The moment I see someone complain about "the youth," I know (1) they probably don't spend much time with youth; (2) they've become their parents in that they have already forgotten that they were once exactly like the youth they now denigrate; and, (3) they would probably complain that Elvis' hips are going to make all the girls promiscuous, if that hadn't already been done.
Well you are wrong pretty often then…
Jamespio Piotrowski · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 5

Whatever you say, gramps.

I'm old, I just refuse to act, think, or treat others as if I am.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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