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Dike hike - Monster Groove
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By shannon stegg
Mar 24, 2013

Sorry you are confused. No it is not about bashing the CCC. It is about educating them, and yes sadly enough Nathan is just that, collateral damage! To my defence on all my badly maintained routes, I have a jar full of atleast 30 to 40 old bolts some mine, some from others. I have replaced New Diversions and New Perversions on Whitesides, several routes on Big Green and many in other nearby areas! Next time do not shoot from the hip, you tend to shoot yourself in the foot!


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By David Barbour
From Longmont, CO
Mar 24, 2013

shannon stegg wrote:
Sorry you are confused. No it is not about bashing the CCC. It is about educating them, and yes sadly enough Nathan is just that, collateral damage! To my defence on all my badly maintained routes, I have a jar full of atleast 30 to 40 old bolts some mine, some from others. I have replaced New Diversions and New Perversions on Whitesides, several routes on Big Green and many in other nearby areas! Next time do not shoot from the hip, you tend to shoot yourself in the foot!


It's nuts to expect FAers to maintain all of their routes. I'm sure a lot of people would be willing to replace bolts if they knew how to do it properly (myself included).


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By rock_fencer
From Columbia, SC
Mar 24, 2013
Myself placing a a blue/yellow offset MC to protect between Bolt 2/3 just post crux . <br /> <br />Picture credit goes to eric Singleton, and many thanks to Josh Bagget for the great belay.

I'm with Tom on this...i have no idea what your point is Shannon? You seem to be very frustrated about something but i'm just not understanding what it is?

Considering the bolting of every single groove and linking grooves and the faces on the knob, its practically turning into a giant bolted grid, albeit well spaced one.

The fact of the matter is there is now legal access to the knob. The CCC/SEC/Access Fund is working to secure more access to more great crags. Dont like what they are doing, get on the board and change it!

And you say its not about ego and yet i quote" climbers who manage to do the things they wish they had!"

I think it would be really beneficial if you could put aside your grievances and put together a cogent summary of what you would like to see get done in the next ten years of south eastern climbing.

Edit: I'm not trying to be an ass but actually figure out what is going on!

Cheers
T


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By Br'er Rabbit
From The Briar Patch
Mar 25, 2013
'Bred en bawn in a brier-patch, Brer Fox--bred en bawn in a brier-patch!'

Grid bolted? First time I've heard that one, T.

rock_fencer wrote:
I think it would be really beneficial if you could put aside your grievances and put together a cogent summary of what you would like to see get done in the next ten years of south eastern climbing.


The two main protagonists in this debate could get alot accomplished if they got together, hugged it out, and thought about the fututre. Don't let these issues loom over Laurel Knob's future.


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By Br'er Rabbit
From The Briar Patch
Mar 25, 2013
'Bred en bawn in a brier-patch, Brer Fox--bred en bawn in a brier-patch!'

shannon stegg wrote:
Sorry you are confused. No it is not about bashing the CCC. It is about educating them.....



With more and more traffic, it sure would be good for the CCC and the SCC and those that float in the background to get together and think about the areas we all enjoy....with the future in mind....from a more traditionalist perspective. What if the camping at Panthertown is as beat down as that by the TWall someday? What if Whitesdies, yes Whitesides, someday is approached with the same bolting tendencies as Sandrock or LRC or Fosters?


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By DanP
From Georgia
Mar 25, 2013
-

This has nothing to do with the actual dispute of this thread but with the education comment by BirminghamBen. That education you speak of Ben needs to be taught at the breeding grounds for the majority of the folks that flock to places like Sandrock and Choster Falls, the climbing gyms. From what I have encountered, most of the new climbing generation are getting their start in gyms. Many if not most of them have no understanding of ethics, especially traditionalists values. I have heard by many that it's perfectly OK to retro bolt and to bolt new routes that can go on gear. Many think it makes it more accessible to more climbers because a set of draws is much cheaper than a rack. Others think trad is out right suicidal. Some even think it's ok to bolt a 20ft boulder problem. I try do do my part in educating those whishing to get into climbing outdoors when I set and help out at my local gym. I think gyms should have posters or something to educate their climbers at the least. Most people I've met from the suburbs of Atlanta think places like Sandrock are the standard. Again, I'm sorry as this has nothing to do with the actual thread.


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By TomCaldwell
From Clemson, S.C.
Mar 25, 2013
Me on One Pitch Wonder at Whitesides.  Photo credits to Kyle Jones and his lucky anti-rain jacket.

shannon stegg wrote:
Next time do not shoot from the hip, you tend to shoot yourself in the foot!


I only got into this thread's discussion because you and Wayne were attempting to defame Nathan with no evidence, just here-say. It is hard to get on board with whatever you have to say about the CCC or the future of SE climbing when we haven't seen anything that suggests it is real. It is the same thing that Ryan said in the Yonah thread. I can see why the CCC might not want to work with you on certain topics when each response on this thread or another has insults inserted into them.

About the future of the SE, it is up to the old guard to show the new that this is the way it should be. We will be the ones either chopping the bolts or letting them stand if someone retro's. If we become alienated by those that preceded us, well... we just may not care. So who is shooting themselves in the foot?

While education does need to start in the gym, this does bring extra liability to the gym, but it should also be done through mentoring. It is the best way for a new trad climber to become proficient.


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By shannon stegg
Mar 25, 2013

Still can not answer the million dollar question? Oh yea that question is how does a group of grown climbers decide on changing the way my favorite climbing destination became the place it is today! Boo knows the answer, probably why she moved. Has to be hard to know the truth and have to read all this crap! When I started climbing almost forty years ago I remember reading a famous quote from Albert Einstien in an old Chounaird catalog. A perfection of means and a confusion of aims seems to be our main problem. Now I know Yvon had more insight than most, and it is quite accurate here.


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By shannon stegg
Mar 28, 2013

Hey, I am curious what route Stephen replaced. He never told me, and I would be curious to find out. I heard he just fixed the anchors on Boulder Problem in the Sky, not my route! I did however just straighten that line out following the natural line and adding one bolt to Gardner's aid route Boulder Problem in Space. This turns an old school three pitch 5.11 into a two pitch 5.10. Beautiful route with incredible exposure!


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By Rhett Burroughs
From Valdosta, GA
Mar 29, 2013
Yup

shannon stegg wrote:
Hey, I am curious what route Stephen replaced. He never told me, and I would be curious to find out. I heard he just fixed the anchors on Boulder Problem in the Sky, not my route! I did however just straighten that line out following the natural line and adding one bolt to Gardner's aid route Boulder Problem in Space. This turns an old school three pitch 5.11 into a two pitch 5.10. Beautiful route with incredible exposure!


Shannon,
Click this link: BOULDER PROBLEM
Stephen replaced the crux gear.

Are you saying that Boulder Problem in Space, listed as 5.8 A4 in the Kelley guide, goes free at 5.10/5.11???


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By Br'er Rabbit
From The Briar Patch
Mar 29, 2013
'Bred en bawn in a brier-patch, Brer Fox--bred en bawn in a brier-patch!'

Rhett Burroughs wrote:
Are you saying that Boulder Problem in Space, listed as 5.8 A4 in the Kelley guide, goes free at 5.10/5.11???


Rhett, he's talking about his new variation on BPitS, I believe.


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By shannon stegg
Apr 1, 2013

Hey Tom, do not scare the masses by telling them there is no longer a plethora of routes in the area! I have been finding them for almost forty years now! Looks like the next prize might be Old Bald, good luck, and keep me informed this time! Oh yea, went to climb Diff Richie's route on the right end of the mountain, it was once one of the most challenging 5.7's in the valley. Now it is a badly done retro-bolt. When the real prolific climbers like Diff Richie are discounted then we stand to loose more than just the soul of climbing!


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By nbrown
From western NC
Apr 1, 2013
Top of Shortoff with the Bonsai

Since most (all) conversation here has nothing to do with the monster groove...

I'd like to thank you Stegg... for quoting such words of wisdom as that from Albert Einstein himself. Truly ironic (and funny)!


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By Dr. Rocktopolus
From Chattanooga, TN
Apr 3, 2013
Whipping on the redpoint crux of " The Theater Of Pain " 5.13b Cooks Wall, NC

So much tension, for once im not in the middle of it... Wahoo!


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By shannon stegg
Apr 3, 2013

Oh yea Nathan, tell all your supporters how you managed to hand drill all those routes in Linville, hypocrite! Really funny!


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By shannon stegg
Apr 3, 2013

How about this for a subject title, Nathan Brown, the Provincial, Prolific, and the Provocative, the real man behind the drill! Just kidding, thought using a side trail was more discrete!


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By nbrown
From western NC
Apr 3, 2013
Top of Shortoff with the Bonsai

Stegg,

You sure like saying my name a lot... Maybe you have a crush?

Seriously though man, you really need to get a life.


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By shannon stegg
Apr 4, 2013

Hey Nathan, want a better definition of irony? Seven of your climbing peers sitting down and voting on wheather to criminally charge you for putting up routes! Something they were all guilty of before they ruled the land! Sad thing that it was even a close vote! I hear it was a 4 to 3 not to charge me. I do not think I would of needed a lawyer to defend myself on that one!


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By shannon stegg
Apr 4, 2013

Nathan. in my day, if any dumb ass climber from out of state came in and retro-bolted a classic 5.8 it would of been chopped on lead the very next day. How come not you, or any of the prolific climbers of N.C. were able to pull that off!


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By shannon stegg
Apr 4, 2013

Nathan, I am actually proud of your bolts at Linville. You can not hand drill an anchor better than a motorized one. What is important here is knowing what rules benefit the masses compared to the rules that benefit the few! When you are wise enough to learn that little piece of wisdom then breaking the rules will make better sense to you!


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By csproul
From Rancho Cordova, CA
Apr 4, 2013
Summit of Wolf's Head with Pingora in the background

OMG, it's like listening to the bat-shit crazy old man down the street rambling incoherently at the neighborhood kids! Nobody know WTF he's babbling about either.


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By shannon stegg
Apr 5, 2013

and the neighborhood kids are just out of comtrol, I guess you are just like their parents, what my kids out of control they are little angels. Wake up and smell the coffee!


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By rock_fencer
From Columbia, SC
Apr 5, 2013
Myself placing a a blue/yellow offset MC to protect between Bolt 2/3 just post crux . <br /> <br />Picture credit goes to eric Singleton, and many thanks to Josh Bagget for the great belay.

Admins can we please lock this thread. There appears to be nothing of substance I'm this discussion


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By shannon stegg
Apr 5, 2013

Sorry Rock Fencer, I will leave this forum for more important issues like where is Dillard Canyon, and what rack should I bring to Yonah! Trying to preserve and document the world class climbs of the past and present is virtually impossible when the legends of the past and present are more worried about their legacy than the truth!


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By rock_fencer
From Columbia, SC
Apr 5, 2013
Myself placing a a blue/yellow offset MC to protect between Bolt 2/3 just post crux . <br /> <br />Picture credit goes to eric Singleton, and many thanks to Josh Bagget for the great belay.

shannon stegg wrote:
Sorry Rock Fencer, I will leave this forum for more important issues like where is Dillard Canyon, and what rack should I bring to Yonah! Trying to preserve and document the world class climbs of the past and present is virtually impossible when the legends of the past and present are more worried about their legacy than the truth!



Shannon
I got nothing against you man, this thread just had no value on the site as it has become a juvenile tit for tat exchange. BirminghamBen can tell you that im neither here nor there, but appreciate logical arguments and clear information regarding the issues that are critical to preserving the future of SE climbing - especially traditional climbing. Feel free to continue posting up valuable route information so we can document more and more climbs of today and the past, and continue on encouraging open access to cliffs in the sE.

Cheers
T


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