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Deviated septum
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By Cocoapuffs 1000
Jan 17, 2012
If anyone has had surgery for a deviated septum, can you comment on the experience? Was the result worth the pain, particularly as far as climbing?

Thanks!

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By "H"
From Manitou Springs
Jan 17, 2012
Axes glistening in the sun
I've had several, but my last surgery was over 10 yrs ago. I can only comment from my experience back then. Depending on how bad the septum is. (I have one now that I haven't had fixed more so because it's not so bad.) You will notice a difference in your breathing and maybe get better sleep at night. The last one I had was uncomfortable and I had to let it heal before doing any climbing as any pressure could start a bleed. It may easier these days. I think it's worth it if you have a good obstruction going on so you can breath and have a better quality of life.

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By Josh Olson
From madison, wisconsin
Jan 17, 2012
Looking at a 5.7 crack with Nick
My girlfriend had hers repaired 2 years ago(before I met her), she says it helped her immensely. Better sleep, better breathing while working out, more comfortable every second of every day afterwards.

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By Cocoapuffs 1000
Jan 17, 2012
HBL, why did you need multiple procedures?

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By Dana Bartlett
From CT
Jan 17, 2012
In 1994 I had a septoplasty and turbinectomy (?sp) done, and the sinus openings were enlarged, as well. I've never had a problem since that time.

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By Aerili
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 17, 2012
The West Desert...it's not just for climbing, suck...
I had this done over a decade ago.

To be honest, I really don't understand how this relates to climbing at all??? Or why/how you would do it 'for' climbing??

This is a very minor procedure, as far as surgeries go. As soon as the doc finally took the packing out of my nose (due to my blood not clotting and then a holiday weekend occurring, it got left it in waaaay too long and the pressure was causing excruciating pain) I had essentially zero pain. It took perhaps 1 month max to feel as if nothing ever happened.

Quality of life in terms of breathing went way up. Definitely worth doing.

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By Shotgunner
Jan 17, 2012
Smashed my nose and front teeth in doing a double gainer off a diving board. Shattered my septum and right turbinate sinuses. Had a septoplasty, rhinoplasty and turbinate extraction because they were shattered so badly.

Recovery was WAY worse then actually breaking it to begin with. Still can hardly breathe out my right nostril. When I'm stuffed up there is no way. Did not affect climbing whatsoever.

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By dorseyec
Jan 17, 2012
Aerili wrote:
To be honest, I really don't understand how this relates to climbing at all??? Or why/how you would do it 'for' climbing?? Quality of life in terms of breathing went way up. Definitely worth doing.


I assume you breathe while you climb? I am thinking the guy is thinking it will be easier to breathe while he climbs.

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By Aerili
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 18, 2012
The West Desert...it's not just for climbing, suck...
dorseyec wrote:
I assume you breathe while you climb? I am thinking the guy is thinking it will be easier to breathe while he climbs.


This kind of surgery makes a big difference for breathing at rest and while sleeping, but not so much for exercise. You rarely breathe out of just your nose during physical exertion, so I think he's unlikely to notice a big change during climbing.

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By "H"
From Manitou Springs
Jan 18, 2012
Axes glistening in the sun
Cocoapuffs 1000 wrote:
HBL, why did you need multiple procedures?



I had broken my nose several times over the years and that caused the septum to be crooked/ blocked. It kinda gets in the way of things. LOL!

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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Jan 18, 2012
My navigator keeps me from getting lost
i had the surgery about 5 years ago. it made a big difference in how much easier it was to breathe through my nose. at the time, i was racing bicycles and prior to the surgery i simply couldn't get enough O2 by breathing through my nose while riding at even the easiest pace.

it's not like the surgery made such a difference that i could get all the O2 I needed by breathing through my nose when i was riding hard. but, it definitely made a difference.

the first 3-5 days of recovery are a PITS and extremely gross, though, so be warned. i remember a persistent, disgusting stream of blood and mucous draining out of my nose for days. and, it's extremely frustrating because you can't blow your nose while it's healing. but, gawd, you will want to. once i could, i was amazed to realize how big the sinus cavities truly are based on what was coming out of them.

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By Cocoapuffs 1000
Jan 18, 2012
Yes, I felt this was simi-climbing relevant since your ability to breathe is pretty helpful for for physical activities.

It's difficult for me to have a clear perspective on this. When I work out hard I intuitively breathe in through the nose and out through the mouth. I feel resticted in my breathing - but obviously I don't know what "normal" breathing feels like. I do snore, or so I've been told.

I saw an ENT doctor about my breathing, and was told I had a deviated septum. About 10 minutes later I was signed up for surgery, to be done by the same doctor. But the cynic in me wonders how much this procedure will really help me. I know several people that have had a similar experience - the doctor's office was very quick to sign them up for surgery - and not all of them thought the end result was of much benefit.

I guess I'm trying to get a feel for how common this procedue is, because my gut is telling me that it is more common than it should be.

Thanks for the feedback.

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By rob rebel
From Denver, co
Jan 18, 2012
I get excited over a large desert rack
I was going to have my septum straightned when I was younger but then we got a second and third opinion and instead of fixing the septum the other two doctors recommended removing my adnoids and cleaning out scar tissue. I was a lot younger so I dont remember much but the other doctors emphasized that fixing the septum was a much more serious surgery than other options. Good luck and get another opinion.

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By Bobby Flowers
From Tacoma, Wa
Jan 18, 2012
Breakfast of Champions
How much does this type of surgery cost?

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By dorseyec
Jan 18, 2012
Aerili wrote:
You rarely breathe out of just your nose during physical exertion


That is just not true.

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By Carl Sherven
Jan 18, 2012
I know one person who had this done. She's very happy with the results. I'm also going to disagree with Aerili. Proper breathing technique for many physical activities is in through the nose and out through the mouth.

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By Jack Cramer
From Corvallis, OR
Jan 18, 2012
Definately climbing related. I have a deviated septum and am looking into having sinus surgery so that I will be able to breathe through my nose while sleeping. In an alpine/high altitude environment I find that I get much more dehydrated during the night than my partners. Which equates to melting more water -> more time -> more fuel -> more weight... Mouth breathing is just not as efficient. I've got a consultation in March but I'm definately going to try to go with the least invasive option that will allow me to breathe at night.

I would also imagine that a better nights sleep will induce better healing and muscle growth for bolt clippers too.

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By Andy Laakmann
Site Landlord
From Bend, OR
Jan 18, 2012
Racked and loaded... name that splitter behind me?...
I have a deviated septum, and if it wasn't for Breathrights I'd have gotten the surgery a decade ago!

breatheright.com/default.aspx?...

I have slept with them every night for the past decade. Total game changers. You'll see instantly when you put them on.

Heck, even people without deviated septums benefit from the strips.

I don't use them working out.. I don't love mouth breathing, but it hasn't bothered me enough to go under the knife since the breathrights take care of sleeping.

Almost all drug stores and large grocery stores carry them. I call them my "50 cents a night tax". They ain't cheap.

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By Stone Nude
Jan 19, 2012
When dumb people have disposable income, hilarity ...
Interesting to note, Andy. Any time I've had trouble with nasal congestion, it's guaranteed to be linked to dairy consumption. You might benefit from upping the vitamin C count and cutting down on the lactose intake, works really well for me.

I like that Dorsal(Anal)Fin has to search through the Injuries section now to find enough people to disagree with.

Class act. I personally prefer kicking people in wheelchairs, but it looks cooler than just hating at a laptop.

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By Cocoapuffs 1000
Jan 19, 2012
Killis,

The dairy comment is interesting - I know it's considered an inflamatory but I never thought about the effect on the nasal cavity. How much dairy do you consume normally?

I've made a half-assed attempt to cut down on dairy for other injury reasons- meaning I drink soy or almond milk, and don't get a milkshake every day with lunch anymore. But I assume you have to cut your intake to nearly zero to really see significant change.

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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Jan 19, 2012
My navigator keeps me from getting lost
Carl Sherven wrote:
I know one person who had this done. She's very happy with the results. I'm also going to disagree with Aerili. Proper breathing technique for many physical activities is in through the nose and out through the mouth.


For yoga maybe because it helps you find that inner you that's been hiding all this time. But, there is no proper breathing technique when you're going for speed at high altitude or doing any other highly anaerobic activity. Other, that is, than get as much oxygen in as you possibly can.

If all you're doing is breathing in through your nose, you're not exerting yourself very hard. Otherwise, you'd have to breathe through your mouth.

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By Stone Nude
Jan 19, 2012
When dumb people have disposable income, hilarity ...
I could go on for hours about dairy, but I'd suggest Amazoning a book called Milk: The Deadly Poison on the subject, which is HIGHLY entertaining, and never fails to start conversations when it's sitting on the coffee table.

The less I eat when the sludge in question comes from a cow titty, the better I feel. The meat-heads will rear up and crush me for saying so, but the best shape I ever have been in was from the combined results of a raw vegan diet, running daily, and lifting weights three times a day. I personally disproved all the protein myths as I ate no obvious source of protein (beans, nuts, flesh, soy, wheat) for over three months, and packed on a shit ton of muscle and had my aerobic threshold go through the roof. (BTW, my job had me getting paid to be on-call and not calling me much, so this lifestyle was largely a prison-style response to being stuck in a hotel for weeks at a time, what else do I have to do but go lift?)

My example is an extreme case, for sure, but in my first week without dairy, I went from coughing up phlegm every morning before I left the bathroom to a daily breathing experience most people only experience for a few moments immediately after shoveling a half tin of peppermint Altoids. It was worth it to me just for the smooth, mucus-free inhale first thing in the morning.

The logic behind this is pretty easy to assess: where and why would ye olde Paleo Homonid get his/her hands on anything coming out of a cowtit on a daily basis? Eating anything that comes out of a cow used to require getting kicked in the skull for trying; nowadays, we can eat shit our ancestors never dreamed of, which is cool, outside of the fact that bacterially active dairy causes an immune response which isn't a good thing if you're consuming dairy 3-5 times a day.

I'm no preaching vegan, I just know what works for me. When I eat ice cream, I suffer for it. Cheese, despite its loyal following and opiate mimicing sensation, is foul stuff if you get down to the brass tacks of how it's made-I'm not even getting started on rennet.

Realistically, this is all way above the heads of the typical "no, YOU'RE stupid" MP user, but dropping dairy for a week is an interesting experiment to try for yourselves. Hard to do if you eat lots of processed foods; read your labels.

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By Aerili
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 19, 2012
The West Desert...it's not just for climbing, suck...
dorseyec wrote:
That is just not true.

Carl Sherven wrote:
I'm also going to disagree with Aerili. Proper breathing technique for many physical activities is in through the nose and out through the mouth.

"Proper" does not necessarily equate with reality. An easy search to see if this has been studied yielded this :


"Anybody wishing to learn more about the evolution of humans and the anatomical changes that made us who we are should follow the research of Dr. Dan Lieberman. Specifically, his book The Evolution of the Human Head is a wealth of information regarding the physiological changes that occurred to the human body throughout its million year evolution.

The chapter pertaining to the structure of the nose, and how it differs from the noses of other mammals and even other primates is particularly enlightening.

the evolution of a turbulence-generating external nose in Homo suggests that the benefits of increasing turbulence must have outweighed the costs. A reasonable hypothesis is that selection acted on nasal shape to favor efficient function of the respiratory epithelium to humify inspired air and to dehumidify expired air during aerobic exercise.

Big, external noses may have helped our ancestors travel long distances in the hot midday sun but only up to a point, because at some threshold the costs of high resistance would outweight the benefits of turbulent airflow. Because airway resistance is much lower in laminar than in turblent flow, increased resistance can become a problem duirng vigorous exercise, which increases the need for air.

So here we have one piece of the puzzle. The nose is engineered to keep us from drying out, an adaption that proved helpful in allowing humans to spread out from the jungles and across the savanna. Its one of the many features that allow us to run for long periods even in extreme ambient heat, but with a catch. Intense anaerobic activity requires more oxygen than can be pulled through the nose, due to increased turbulence and resistance."




Jack Cramer wrote:
Definately climbing related. I have a deviated septum and am looking into having sinus surgery so that I will be able to breathe through my nose while sleeping.

I already agreed that this greatly improved sleep quality. But this is an indirect effect on climbing performance. I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that the OP meant technical free climbing, not approaches or mountaineering type of scenarios.

For instance, when was the last time sucking air limited your ability to pull a move? Most stopper moves are highly anaerobic, therefore the need for oxygen is not too relevant. Heavy breathing during hard exercise is related primarily to getting rid of hydrogen ions, not getting oxygen.





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By Cocoapuffs 1000
Jan 20, 2012
When I'm climbing hard I tend to breathe through my mouth. I don't know if it's because that way is more efficient or my nose just sucks at breathing.

I will say this - when I'm resting and shaking out mid-climb (sometimes gasping for breath) I recover more easily if I breathe in my nose and out the mouth - especially if it is an awkward rest and I need to keep my core tense to stay in position. If I try just mouth breathing in that situation, my breathing tends to be very shallow. Even sitting here at my computer desk, if my abs are tensed up then it feels much easier to breathe in through my nose.

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