Dawn Wall. Been watchinga TV program where climbers were attempting to free climb Dawn Wall on El Cap. Maybe I am old fasioned but reducing a three thousand foot climb to sport pitches with draws already placed ahead of the attempt(regardless of difficulty ) seems not quite Kosher if you know what I mean ... What do you think ?

Their goal is to redpoint each pitch, in order, bottom to top in one ascent, and thereby free the route.


It's widely accepted that having a biner or draw on a piece of fixed pro is: A. easier B. Fair game for freeclimbing/redpointing pitches.

Hence they are putting draws on the fixed pro, and spending time on the hardest moves.

They are also placing any non-fixed gear on lead attempts.

And that's what makes sense for a possible FFA of any difficulty: to accomplish it in the most efficient way possible. (which in this case, may be the ONLY way possible, or it may still not be possible)

Would it be more impressive for someone to send that route going ground-up? Definitely.

Would it be more impressive for someone to send that route in bowling shoes? Definitely.

Both would be amazing accomplishments, neither is going to be how such routes get freed.

I think Tommy Caldwell has proven himself as more than just a pink-pointing sport climber. Watching someone free-climb that many pitches of 5.13 and 5.14 up El Cap is pretty inspiring, preplaced draws or not.

I'll reserve my style judgements for when I can actually do the route in a better style than him. TC is as good at free climbing in the valley as anyone is, I don't see any problems.

If I remember when they freed Muir wall in 2001 photos showed pre place cams . Does this mean that second ascents have to rap the climb to preplace protection or do they aid it first? Does it mention somewhere on the decription of the free ascent about preplaced pro?. As you say good effort but.....

So far as I am aware, when Tommy and co. have gone on their redpoint attempts, they are placing gear on lead. If they fall, they lower back to belay and go again. I dont know if they pull the gear or not.

gotta love it when someone who cant climb anyone near that level complain about the "ethics" of people who go out there and do it ...

perhaps people can get on that wall and show mr Caldwell, Jorgeson and Siegrist how to REALLY climb

;)

Bearbreeder......ethics are ethics regardless of your ability. Ground up, red point, yo-yo, trad or sport, it's the same standard for everyone. Elite climbers don't shat any more or less than the rest of us. What Tommy Caldwell and crew are doing is inspirational and impressive, but don't try to sell us that their ascent of the Dawn Wall should be judged by different standard because of their abilities. You may not like USBRIT's tone, but THERE ARE NO DOUBLE STANDARDS BASED ON ABILITY! Even armchair climbers have 1st Amendment rights and the right to complain, just like you, me and elite climbers.

Yeah, all that super difficult 13+ climbing for multiple pitches, sometimes in super cold temps with the added difficulties of big wall logisitics and sustaining long arduous pushes is a complete joke. How dare these guys assault ethics like that. I may write my congressman and see if something can be done.

I think I may give USBRIT's opinion a bit more weight than those of some of the rest of us.

TC and company are climbing multiple 5.13 and 5.14 pitches on El Cap...seriously you really think this would have happened without sport climbing and alternate techniques from ground up and placing every draw. Be realistic. If someone comes along 50 years from now and onsights the Dawn Wall ground up, placing all gear, believe me they will have years of sport climbing, advanced equipment under their belts to have achieved such a level. TC has already climbed more hard trad on El Cap than anyone. Sorry ground up isn't going to get 5.14+ done on El Cap. Most, if not all the "easy" routes on El Cap are done. In fact it might not be even possible to bolt these pitches from hooks and marginal stances...not to mention test the moves and sequences. This climbing is so hard without inspection on rappel it might not be possible and you might be bolting into a wasteland, never to be climbed.

Fine to celebrate ground up ascents, place all the gear ascents...just not the only way to climb. How many 5.14, 5.14+ ground up ascents are there? Any?

Even Lynn Hill pre-hung draws on pre-placed pro in order to free climb the nose in one push. So what? Big deal. This in no way diminishes the value of her achievement: free climbing something that had previously only ever been aided.

I want to furthermore this by sayin'; Lynn Hill is dreamy. She put the houdini corner thing (changing corners) at 5.13b, a pitch that was later conceded to be 5.14a/b. sigh... dreamy.