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Lisa Mercurio wrote:Unless your pup is about to send, please keep them leashed. I had my dog leashed and an unleashed bully of a pup got in her face, distracting the belayer and almost breaking my dog's leg (she got her chain leash wrapped around her leg). Props to well mannered dogs and attentive owners!

Word.

• ding - ding - ding *

... and they're off!

Definitely a solid rule.
Other dog rules that should be instituted at once-
1. No dogs that start barking when their owner is going up a route or dogs that constantly whine. Not a nice peaceful time...
2. No wimpy dogs that almost die on approach

And if your dog thinks it's OK to bark incessantly for the entire time it's at the crag (a few of them at Owens in January), bring them back to the car or muzzle them. Literally.

I love these bi-annual dog hater/dog lover threads!

extra protein after a climb ;)

Seeing as how it's the time of the year when people start getting outside and the dogs yet again become an issue, I'm just going to repost my comments from the last dog thread that I truly believe are rules to live by:

The problem with dogs is that people view their own dog, like their own kid. Everyone thinks their dog is the best in the world and s/he may truly be Lassie. It may be obedient, sweet, gentle, quiet, etc. As a result, dog owners tend to flout the rules in regards to their own dog.

"Well, my dog is really well-behaved so he doesn't need to be on a leash." "He's just barking because he worries about me when I climb." "My dog is super friendly with other dogs so I just let him do his thing." All of these, I have heard said by a dog owner at one point or another at the crag.

With regards to the first statement, I don't care if you own Rin Tin Tin; not everyone loves your dog and wants it in their business, no matter how great they might be. I have a dog, I love dogs, and personally, I don't mind having a dog roaming around one bit. However, if I had been bitten by one when I was younger and was looking for a nice peaceful day climbing, I wouldn't be happy about your unsupervised dog.

Secondly, if your dog barks AT ALL, whether it be a friendly bark or a threatening one, leave it at home. Dogs don't get more leeway than humans and if a human decided to constantly yell unintelligible noises all day, you'd probably tell them to shut it and leave. Same applies to dogs.

As for the last statement, your dog might be the friendliest dog ever. Mine is not. If my dog is tied to a tree near the base of the climb I'm on and your unsupervised, unleashed dog approaches and gets it's face ripped off, I'm not going to apologize. Besides that, unleashed dogs get in the way, step on ropes, and generally just add an unnecessary layer of complexity to the cragging situation.

I don't mean any of this to imply that getting a dog is bad. I think getting a dog is one of the greatest things I have ever done. That said, you need to learn respect for others as well as how to deal with a dog. I bring my dog to the crag in very specific situations (single-pitch, less popular crags) and only because he is older (7 going on 8) so he doesn't have the psychotic tendencies of a puppy, genuinely enjoys just sitting outside, is absolutely silent, with the consent of my partner, and I tie him right next to our stuff. No sandwich stealing, rope trampling, barking, or getting in the way is allowed. Climbing is human time, not dog time. Only if the crag is empty or if I ask other nearby climbers if they mind will I take the dog off the leash.

As for the dude making the argument that dogs have just as much of a right to be at the crag as humans, I respectfully disagree. Dogs are allowed outside, 100%. However, there is a dog time and human time. Nobody will mind if you bring your dog to the dog park, a hiking trail, etc. because these are dog activities. Climbing is not; it is for humans only. Besides, as someone else pointed out, a dog has no fun being tied to a tree next to your stuff all day at the bottom of some multipitch climb. If you're climbing anywhere where others might be climbing, leave the dog at home, with someone else, or, and I know this last one is a crazy thought, wake up an hour earlier and take the dog for a walk before you leave for the day...

I love dogs, just not at the crag. Other climbers deserve respectful treatment more than your dog needs the opportunity to be outside for a little while. And your dog is not special, I'm sorry. We all think our own dog is great, but everyone else looks at is like just another dog so follow the rules because they do in fact, apply to you.

Nothing about dog-lover or dog-hater, its about leashed dogs versus unleashed dogs and considerate versus inconsiderate owners.

I take my dog to the crags about 20% of the times but he is on the leash 100% of the times, even around camp.

Last fall when I was at Indian Creek at the camping area, a dog who wasn't on a leash charged my dog while we were on the road. The owner yelled over to me, don't touch him since he definately isn't friendly, and it was a pitbull mix. If I had my dog with me or not and the unleashed dog showed aggressive actions towards me when I (we) were on the road (a publically common area)I would have cut the dog's f#&^'n throat.

As for barking. If its going to bark constantly, leave it at home. If it's barking for some reason, give up your onsight/redpoint at attend to your dog, since other people don't deserve to have their time interferred with. Its about being considerate.

Myself, I normally tie my dog's leash to my climbing pack. He normally just ends up taking a nap in the sun, but if he barks, I attend to him.

My rules about bringing them to the crags

1) keep them on a leash
2) if they are barking, deal with it NOW, not later.
3) if he poop's, pick it up and pack it out.
4) don't let him get into other climber's shit (rule number 1 usually addresses this one)
5) don't let them pee on other peoples stuff (had this happen to me in the Gunks years ago)
6) don't let them terrorize other people/animals/dogs (ie: Indian Creek, especially the working dogs)/cows (ie: Indian Creek)

Can't follow these rules, leave them at home.

Paintball Guns. The human gets it first, then the pup if it won't chill.

So Gilles... you don't really get it, do you?

Lisa Mercurio wrote:Don't give me "mom eyes" when your child's poop diaper falls off next to me and you're too stoned to clean it up.

Ha ha ha! I can see that look now. I'm with you on that. I would never have left my daughter's soiled diapers sitting around. I double bagged 'em and put them in the pack immediately. I did find a dried out pee diaper after several weeks in a side pocket once, though. Yeaaaarrgh! Oh, it doesn't smell too bad.

Oh, and dog owners you let your dogs wander at your peril. They will find those little wrapped up human turds in a Starbucks napkins buried near the routes, wolf them down, and redeposit them in the car on the ride home. Think I'm kidding? Bru ha ha ha.

Lisa Mercurio wrote:I also had a dog pee on my non-dry rope...it got kicked...ooops, I mean, my foot slipped. I am tempted to also ask for the same courtesies when bringing children to the crag. 1. Don't allow them to use my pack as a pillow, thus crushing my PB&J and spilling my water. 2. For the love of god, stop yelling/whining. 3. I am not, nor do I ever want to be, a breeder. Don't give me "mom eyes" when your child's poop diaper falls off next to me and you're too stoned to clean it up. Dogs, kids, beta sprayers...all subtle annoyances that make for interesting debate on MP.

Lisa, I'm just warning you...As a climber-woman, the more you rail against children, dogs, and beta sprayers, the more attractive you're becoming to the overly male MP population...I mean, I'm pretty sure the reason most of us are on here is because we'd rather be climbing (or at least talking about topics remotely related to climbing) than breeding (I mean actual reproduction. I'm sure the majority of us love the act of breeding, just not the result of it). It's finding a member of the opposite sex who agrees with that perspective that is the difficult part.

For those of you scared of dogs:

A full rack makes quite a nice mace, I can swear by it!

Lisa Mercurio wrote: Thank you for causing me to laugh so hard I spit coffee on my monitor!

seriously ...

whats not to like about tasty dogs ...

- they are self powered, so you dont need to carry extra food weight
- they are usually quite lean if you wok em
- you can get em in big sizes to feed a whole climbing party, or bite sized ones for those solo ascents
- the fur makes a great beanie ... think a modern davy crocket hat
- they are "free" at yr local SPCA ... youll never pay for protein again

roald amundsen understood this very well on his dash to the south pole ... he ate his dogs and lived ... scott didnt bring dogs or eat his ponies ... and died

when i see a dog around the crag i reach out and start petting it ... commenting "what a tasty dog you are, such lean meat" ... that with my good azn looks usually sends dog owners scurrying to another climb ... i wonder why ...

stomach is growling now ... hmmmmm

well i usually like to marinate em in whatever the local beer is ... i personally think that local dogs taste best with local brews and ingredients ...

however black bean sauce is always a favorite from my childhood days ...

what i do find difficult is getting a good stew in my jetboil since temperature control is usually all or nothing with that stove ... so cooking dogs in an alpine bivy is kinda hard ... however im experimenting dog sashimi japanese style to save on fuel weight ... theres a restaurant here that sells horse sashimi and its quite tender ... i just need to find a tender alpine dog ;)

David Sahalie wrote:the rare, but lethal dog/baby hybrid:

They grow up into this:

If those folks with dogs went to crags that are not sport climbing areas , that more than often have more human noise than dog, they would not have to deal with the above problems.

I always take my dogs to the crag, unleashed. They never bark, fight with other dogs, pee on people's stuff or steal their lunch. I always make sure they have a good run before we head for the crag so when I'm ready to climb, they're happy to chill.

dogs are not good belayers, i don't care what you say they just cant seem to take up slack fast enough. it doesn't seem like the leashed dogs at the base of climbs are too psyched, yanking and barking. it kind of seems like the dogs are speaking out. they might be complaining. my old dog used to whine, get in trouble(eat human poop then try to lick my face)pee on packs, fight with other mammals, roll in fresh cow patty,chase deer, etc. my life is hard enough. i don't think i need all that extra work. like some climbers i'm out there searching for peace and its distracting to deal with noisy dogs and people but at times i find it entertaining. if they want the extra "adventure", have at it! i like dogs but i love freedom!

Ed Wright wrote:I always take my dogs to the crag, unleashed. They never bark, fight with other dogs, pee on people's stuff or steal their lunch. I always make sure they have a good run before we head for the crag so when I'm ready to climb, they're happy to chill.

In Mexico?