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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Sep 13, 2012
Cleo's Needle

jbird wrote:
I thought the Mystery Ranch pack looked sweet until I went on their web site and poked around a little. Are you sure these are dirt bag climbers? They look more like a bunch of dirt bag right wing hunters. . . Here is an example of one of their packs in use from their blog. . .blog.mysteryranch.com/2012/02/the-wolf-days-of-winter/ I like to support people and industry that reflect my values and beliefs and these guys seem to be way off. I read the story and I know the background, we just see the world differently.


Dana Gleason is a cool dude, he was the owner of Dana Designs before K2 bought them. He is a skier and hunter/conservationist. MR supplies the armed services and the hunting community primarily. If you're the sort of hang-wringer that snivels at that sort of thing I doubt Dana is going to miss your business.


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By jbird
Sep 13, 2012

Yea, I know a little about Dana Gleason, to me he seems like a sell-out. Everybody loves his packs but he sold the designs and company to K2 which were then sold to Marmot and moved production over seas. So once he could legally start producing packs again he did, I assume because of some copy rights he also sold.

I'm sure he wont miss my business, I just like to look into the companies I do support. It's a shame because some of the packs look sweet.


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By climber pat
From Las Cruces, NM
Sep 13, 2012

I do not like my cilogear worksack. The material is too stiff and is easily torn. I have 7 holes in the bottom of my pack after just a couple of months of use. Also, I do not like the way the pack sizing is accomplished by moving the hip belts up and down rather than adjusting the shoulder straps. And I hate the accessory straps and how they connect to the pack. On the plus side it carries very well and the frame pad is nicer than anything else I have seen. One can do much better for 2/3 the price.

I sorta like my BD Epic 45. It is small for the size rating mostly due to the top pocket being sown directly to the pack rather than free floating. It has been much more durable than the cilogear pack and I like it better. It has a heavy duty rotating gimmickey waist belt which works find. Overall the pack carries fine and climbs ok. No holes and used much more than the cilogear.

I like my BD speed 45 better yet. It has a free floating top pocket and seems much bigger then the Epic 45. It has a lighter duty waist belt. I get along with the pack much better than the Epic 45.

I liked my Osprey Mutant for 2 years until the frame-sheet because permanently deformed. It carried well and climbed well and had no holes in two years.

Both the BD speed and Epic use the same material as the mutant for the frame-sheet but also have a metal stays to prevent it from deforming.

Of the set I would go with the speed or the mutant if I were to buy today.


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By Nick Stayner
From The Magic City
Sep 13, 2012
Nick Stayner near the crux. Ryan Minton photo.

Fair enough Jbird. Your loss.
Mystery Ranch builds packs for climbers, skiers, hikers, wildland firefighters, military, and yes, even hunters. In fact the company is able to pay for good old American skiers and climbers to build your packs in Bozeman because of their contract with the military.


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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Sep 13, 2012
Cleo's Needle

jbird wrote:
Yea, I know a little about Dana Gleason, to me he seems like a sell-out. Everybody loves his packs but he sold the designs and company to K2 which were then sold to Marmot and moved production over seas. So once he could legally start producing packs again he did, I assume because of some copy rights he also sold. I'm sure he wont miss my business, I just like to look into the companies I do support. It's a shame because some of the packs look sweet.


Well which is it, you just went there and found the hunting stuff or you know a little bit about Dana Gleason? Sure sounds like you have a personal issue. Dana employs folks over in Bozeman, Americans in fact, can you say the same thing about yourself? What are you doing for your community that compares?

By the way, I see that you're selling a Granite Gear pack. Did you know that Granite Gear supplies the US Armed Forces and hunters? You might want to go dig around their site a little and report back the information. Better be quick though, you really don't want to be associated with the ethics of those awful "right-wingers." www.granitegearstore.com/Granite-Tactical-Gear-C31.aspx


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By Nick Stayner
From The Magic City
Sep 13, 2012
Nick Stayner near the crux. Ryan Minton photo.

Good reading for anyone interested in Mystery Ranch/Dana Designs history: www.outsidebozeman.com/winter-2010-2011/leader-pack

Jbird, maybe you could use it to clear up some of the assumptions you made earlier.

From the article: "Will production ever move back overseas? Dana doesn’t think so, and for him, staying local comes down to the quality of the product. “This isn’t about wrapping ourselves in the flag,” he says. “We want the absolute best, and that is much easier to guarantee when it’s produced here.” If Mystery Ranch were producing what Dana calls “fashion bags,” then production could feasibly move abroad. But with a strong customer base that places such a heavy reliance on the reliability of the product, they need control at every point of production. “Really, it’s a pain in the ass doing things right every step of the way,” Dana admits. “But it’s worth it.”


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By cdec
From SLC and Moab, ut
Sep 13, 2012

50L packs for cragging?
I use a BD Hollow point 20L pack for that. Draws, double rack, harness, personal gear, shoes, first aid kit, water, extra jacket, helmet and a 70 over the top if I need to carry the rope too.


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By jbird
Sep 13, 2012

Yea, I'm sure it's difficult to maintain high quality and compete in such a huge industry. . . I think their products look great, I just don't support the same values.

If people don't have a problem with it they should purchase merchandise from them. I think this is great, more people know more about Mystery Ranch than they did earlier today and that is loosely what the OP was about.


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By Chris Graham
From Bartlett, NH
Sep 14, 2012
portrait <br />

evolution wrote:
I recently bought the Cilogear 30L worksack and really like it as a climbing pack and how it carries weight. I will say though I've only brought it on a couple of 'real' alpine rock climbs and on the first one I returned to find 2 minor tears in the fabric. The climbing was easy and in retrospect I can't even imagine when it happened. My point is, though I haven't owned it for long, durability is certainly in question. I've owned Cold Cold World bags for years,under tons of abuse, with none of these issues. Just my experience....


Bummer. I have two that are made of the NWD fabric and have had one hole popped into it from a cottonwood or something at Red Rocks two years ago...a patch of cuban fiber and it is good as new. Sorry to hear that you hav eexperienced durability issues. I have put mine through the paces and have had no issues to date. CCW are great packs and are made here in Jackson. Can't go wrong with either IMHO.


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By Josh Kornish
Sep 14, 2012
The Roach

I haven't had any durability issues with my Cilo 30L GS.

When I first got the pack I was pretty unsure of the durability. Four months later and it's still holding up great.


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By jmeizis
From Colorado Springs, CO
Sep 14, 2012
The Beginning of Mr. Clean (5.8) at the Barkeater Cliffs in Adirondack Park NY.

What do you need a 50L pack for? For just trad or sport climbing you can easily fit the whole shebang in a 30L pack like this.

Otherwise, try the Gregory Alpinisto. It's a nice 50L pack with some good ooring options.


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By climber pat
From Las Cruces, NM
Sep 14, 2012

cdec wrote:
50L packs for cragging? I use a BD Hollow point 20L pack for that. Draws, double rack, harness, personal gear, shoes, first aid kit, water, extra jacket, helmet and a 70 over the top if I need to carry the rope too.



I prefer packs with a better suspension system because most of the climbing I do is about 1 hour hike generally off trail. Also I put the rope in the bottom of the pack to protect the pack from getting holes by rubbing the pack again a rock with a hard object on the inside. The rope inside the pack also eliminates the getting caught on branches while hiking.


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By Mark Wyss
From Denver, CO
Sep 14, 2012
Mt. Baker

cdec wrote:
50L packs for cragging? I use a BD Hollow point 20L pack for that. Draws, double rack, harness, personal gear, shoes, first aid kit, water, extra jacket, helmet and a 70 over the top if I need to carry the rope too.


You can't pull off fitting all that gear in a 20L pack. Sorry.


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By cdec
From SLC and Moab, ut
Sep 14, 2012

Mark Wyss wrote:
You can't pull off fitting all that gear in a 20L pack. Sorry.


Can and do almost daily. Also squeeze in a cell phone, small headlamp and a small knife.

Learned to pack from one of the best. It's really easy if you take a second and use the space that's there rather than throwing all your stuff into a bag 2 times the size that is actually needed.

Just did and overnight to climb in Lone Peak Cirque with a BD 35L pack. All that gear plus a sleeping pad, bag, food and a puffy.


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By Michael C
From New Jersey
Sep 18, 2012
Base of Main Flow, The Narrows.

My first climbing pack was a Black Diamond Speed 30L. Even for "cragging" it was way too small. Packing a lunch bag and water left very little room. I sold it to my buddy and upgraded to a Mountain Hardwear Super Scrambler 50L. I can easily pack my rack, draws, rope, shoes, helmet, water, lunch, and even throw in a medium-weight jacket. The internal "frame sheet" isn't very supportive, but the pack is considered to be lightweight and they do recommend adding additonal support panneling. I'm dissapointed that after only a year there's already rip and plenty of wear that's close to ripping. I can always patch it up, but I expected a lot more life out of this pack. I just ordered a Mammut Trion 40L. A little smaller, more supportive, and much burlier. I'll post a review once it arrives and I've put it to the test.


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By Will S
From Joshua Tree
Sep 18, 2012

ArcTeryx Miura 50. The bee's knees, the cat's ass. Best cragging pack I've owned or seen, by a wide margin. Love mine.


www.mountainproject.com/v/gear-review-arcteryx-miura-50-clim>>>


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By willeslinger
From Golden, Colorado
Nov 16, 2012
I was pretty bummed when they didn't greenlight my "Bourne Identity" style reboot of The Eiger Sanction. This was from the rough draft's first act.

jbird wrote:
I thought the Mystery Ranch pack looked sweet until I went on their web site and poked around a little. Are you sure these are dirt bag climbers? They look more like a bunch of dirt bag right wing hunters. . . Here is an example of one of their packs in use from their blog. . .blog.mysteryranch.com/2012/02/the-wolf-days-of-winter/ I like to support people and industry that reflect my values and beliefs and these guys seem to be way off. I read the story and I know the background, we just see the world differently.


devil's advocate here, but from that same blog:

"The secret spot was discovered the third spring. Snowmobiles and four-wheelers had scavenged the place. I witnessed two individuals chase down a six point bull on their four-wheelers, hooting and hollering, trying to get him to drop his antlers. Their arrogance and lack of respect disgusted me. Ethics should play a role in all types of hunting."

these guys hike in, carry out their kills on their own backs, honestly seems kind of admirable and adventurous, a lot different from what passes for hunting back home in TN


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By bearbreeder
Nov 16, 2012

Q: What's a cragging pack?

A: It's a marketing gimmick. If you're only going cragging, you don't need to buy a fancy pack. You do, however, need to bring tasty food.


www.alpinist.com/doc/web12f/wfeature-dirtbag-diatribes-numbe>>>


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By Dane
Nov 16, 2012
Cham '11

My apologies to the OP but this and the related comments were difficult to ignore.



I don't typically get called a liberal, but are you shitting me?

"Dana Gleason is a cool dude", not in my opinion, he ain't. YMMV. people say worse about me.

"I threw the bipod down on the rifle and readied for the shot. Randy called out the range at 510 yards. The wolf was on the move, and we yelled to stop it from disappearing into a draw.

“I got him,” the cameraman said.

I settled the crosshairs, and began squeezing the trigger. At the report of the rifle, the wolf disappeared into the draw.

“You smoked it!” Randy yelled.

I wasn’t so sure. The wolf came up out of the draw, and we could see it had been hit. We shot again, and it went down quickly."

A lazer called 500 yard shot and obviously not a clean, human or "quick" kill.

I do a lot of shooting and know what it takes to make a 500 or a 1000 yard shot. I don't call killing anything at 500 yards hunting. More like a video game. No honor or respect there. I also know what is considered ethical hunting. Dana Gleason didn't get my business as Dana Designs. I didn't particularly like his work. Not that it matters. He sure as hell won't now. But WTF is up with you guys supporting this kind of stuff?


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By Matt N
From Santa Barbara, CA
Nov 16, 2012
OTL

If I weren't cheap, it sounds like a Miura 50 would do it for me. Until I find one on sale for $150, though, I've narrowed it down to:

Mammut Neon Gear 45 (one MP member noted a durability issue, though) other than that, gets great reviews - and I love the included rope tarp that cinches down with a drawstring. Possibly a less comfortable suspension (waist belt is just webbing).

Mountain Hardwear Splitter 38 (m/l size is 42L) also includes rope tarp, but a basic one.

Both have tons of dedicated stash/pockets for shoes, chalk bag, etc. I don't like the daisy location on the Neon, but can add something to make a centered one. Wish I could check them out in person first.

REI in town doesn't carry any to check out in person. MH and Mammut can be found for ~$120. If anyone has handled/used/molested more than one of the above and can compare/contrast, that'd be cool. Will see if any of the smaller stores in town carry any of these this weekend if I'm in town.


Back to your off-topic thread.


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By rogerbenton
Nov 18, 2012
Whoever this guy is, he's just plain irresponsible.

i really like the splitter.

pros-
-plenty room for all your stuff and it's well organized.
-burly as hell- big zippers, strong material, very abrasion resistant, very slow to show wear.
-decent suspension, the waist belt is well padded, really gets the weight off your shoulders.
-can be had on the cheap (got mine N.O.S. on ebay for $70)

cons-
-not the lightest bag
-beware the sizing - i'm 6'1, and the 42L feels a touch too big. rides a little low on the waist. i'm used to it now but it was uncomfortable at first.

only other gripe is that there is only one outside compartment for stuff you want to get to quickly but mine is a 2009 model and i think they changed that with the new ones.

i'd gladly pay ~$120 for it again if this one disappeared.


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By Ben Beckerich
From saint helens, oregon
Nov 19, 2012
About half way up the East Arete on Illumination Rock

Dane wrote:
A lazer called 500 yard shot and obviously not a clean, human or "quick" kill. I do a lot of shooting and know what it takes to make a 500 or a 1000 yard shot. I don't call killing anything at 500 yards hunting. More like a video game. No honor or respect there. I also know what is considered ethical hunting. Dana Gleason didn't get my business as Dana Designs. I didn't particularly like his work. Not that it matters. He sure as hell won't now. But WTF is up with you guys supporting this kind of stuff?


So if you found out Peter Metcalf was a cougar hunter, you'd toss all your BD stuff in the trash?


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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Nov 19, 2012
Cleo's Needle

Ben B. wrote:
So if you found out Peter Metcalf was a cougar hunter, you'd toss all your BD stuff in the trash?


Peter probably won't return Dane's phone calls anymore.


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By Matt N
From Santa Barbara, CA
Nov 19, 2012
OTL

rogerbenton wrote:
i really like the splitter. i'd gladly pay ~$120 for it again if this one disappeared.


Thanks for another review - I ordered one this morning. Looking forward to no longer wearing out my backpacking backpack.


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By DoesNotCare
From Heaven
Nov 20, 2012
Are you Chicken, or fishy?

I don't really think people should be shooting at wolves, but if you grew up in Wyoming or Montana you would have a very different view of wolves. Anyways, I have a Mystery Ranch Pack and while I really like the way it fits and the features it provides I don't really feel as though it is as burly as MR claims, or the price suggests. If I was to do it over I would have paid half as much to get an Arcteryx Miura 50, helped the Philipinos that sew it provide a better life for their children instead of providing work for spoiled Bozeman students.

ultraliteoutfitters.ecrater.com/p/15533728/arcteryx-miura-50>>>


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