Communicating on multi-pitch routes.

I was told in 1975 when I learned to belay that five signals kept it simple which makes it safer.

I bring it up not to bash, but so that hopefully someone simplifies their signals and makes it safer for them and those around them.

I have been climbing a lot of moderate multi-pitch routes. A number of times I have been next to parties that had exchanges like this when the leader reached the belay and finished anchoring in. Leader: "Off Belay" Follower "Belay Off". After a couple of minutes Follower: "Am I on Belay?" Leader: "No you are not on belay". Follower: "Climbing" Leader: "You're not on yet" "Follower: "What?"

They eventually work it out but the confusion for that party and others who mistake the other parties yells for that of their partner makes for a dangerous situation.

I learned to use five different terms.
"On Belay" when I was ready to take in rope and catch a fall even if I do not hear anything else from my partner. If I could take in rope I was responsible for my partner the second I said "On Belay".

Ideally I would hear my partner say "Climbing" and I would reply "Climb" at which point my partner would start climbing.

If my partner or I needed rope while climbing we would say "Slack" and if we wanted it tighter I would say "Up Rope".

I also may be behind the times. Perhaps there is some literature or doctrine that says more communication is better.

I think the point here is that you should have your signals and communications, whatever they might be, established with your partner before you start climbing.

Two weekends ago at tahquitz, partner and I were shouting back and forth as you describe,

folks a couple of routes over had two-way radios. what a fine idea, over.

I agree with the commands you listed and I use them as well. On busy cliffs I like to add the name of my partner. It's also important to keep the command phonettically different. My partner likes to say "safe" when he means "belay off" and a few times I heard "take" and locked off the rope instead.

Another interesting topic is how to communicate when you can't hear each other. I have used rope pulls for this before.

Kai

I simplify this situation even more:

My wife knows that I NEVER start pulling up the rope until I am completely ready to put her on belay. This means that I take my shoes off, drink water, and do whatever else I may want to do before I pull the rope up. She knows that once the rope goes tight, she need only wait 30 seconds and she is surely on belay. I still yell "On Belay" of course.

On multi-pitch I always yell out commands but sometimes the place is too noisy or crowded to hear even the loudest of yells. So me and my partner(s) have come up with rope tugs to relay certain things. I think spoken communication is important but I think you should also have a series of tugs in place if spoken communication were to fail.

Sidenote: The two way radio is a cool idea. I might try it myself. Anyone know any cheap and light models that you could run a sling through?

Text messages

More reading material on this subject:

mountainproject.com/v/rope-…

Johnny K wrote:

"Follower is on belay.Follower starts climbing,rope goes up,belay is on. If the rope does not go up as the follower climbs,belay is not on,do not move upward until rope moves up."

This is funny. Completely undo your anchor, start climbing, then decide if you are on belay. If not, don't move? More like "Don't Fall". You are not on belay and you are going to die if you do.

A simple rope tug system will eliminate the need for all the above posts, all confusion from difficult to hear routes, routes with other people around and everything else.

Communication errors happen all too often and usually with serious injuries, yet easily avoided.

SteveP wrote:Two weekends ago at tahquitz, partner and I were shouting back and forth as you describe, folks a couple of routes over had two-way radios. what a fine idea, over.

That might have been me and my group. I resisted radios for a long time thinking they'd be just one more unnecessary thing to carry. How foolish that was. The cheap radios I picked up at Target a couple years ago for $20 (for the pair) weigh nothing and have been an absolute godsend many times. Nevermind not having to shout, you can actually "communicate" rather than reserving comment only for absolutely necessary commands (i.e. "Hey Ryan." "Yeah?" "The red camalot 40 feet up...you'll need to lift it up a little to get it out." "Okay").

I think I'd like to get a little bit better pair, since the cheapies I got pick up all the chatter from mom down in town talking to the kids, but don't have the power to communicate to mom that the channel is in use. Since most of my climbing is easy routes at places like Tahquitz, where the leader is invisible after 30 feet, the radios are actually truly safer than shouting. Somewhere on MP there's a recommendation for a pair that are about $50 and looked pretty nice.

You still need a tug system (batteries die, electronics fail, radios get dropped), but mine is so simple that there's nothing to learn, really. Three tugs from the leader = off belay. bring up the rope, three tugs from the leader = belay on.

Edit: Here's a link to the thread about radios . The link to the motorola radios takes you to the ones that I carry. A word of caution about these though...the power button is positioned such that the radios tend to turn themselves on in your pack, wearing down the batteries quickly. For that reason alone, I'd recommend shelling out a little more for a better pair.

I have used radios at Eldorado Canyon with great success when the water is running. Radios are a great idea but batteries go dead, you need a back up plan.

Last weekend I was on Hanging Teeth ( mountainproject.com/v/hangi…) by mistake. We jumped on it thinking it was The Caverns but knew that everything in this area was within our ability so no biggie. Unfortunately my partner was having an off day and stopped short of finishing the 2nd pitch. I cam up and linked the rest of 2 with 3. This created so much f-ing rope drag using my full body weight I was able to pull up about 2-3 inches of rope at a time on the p3 belay. We could barely hear each other and after a yelling match I had him tie in short so he could start climbing and release some of the rope drag.

My question is what if we couldn't hear one another at all? I literally am not sure if I could have pulled up the rest of the slack to belay him. What would you do?

Since radios have been mentioned...

Does anyone have a recommendation on some good current 2-way radios? Are Motorolas still the go-to brand?

A lot of units seem to be boasting 20+ mile ranges, which is obviously overkill for climbing where it's unlikely that you'll need a range of more than a few hundred feet (except for rescue scenarios, I suppose. More range might be useful there).

I can't comment on what's good or bad really only what has worked for me. I picked up a set from Target by Motorola, I think they were like $45 they don't have a model # on them.

The way I climb is:

Leader reaches belay.
Sets up anchor.
Verifies that anchor is good and will not have to tinker with it, adjust stance, do anything else.

Yells, "joe, off belay", pulls up rope.
Within seconds, puts second climber on belay.

Yells "Joe, belay is on"

So if the second can't hear any of this, it is ok.
Because almost immediately after pulling up the rope, the second will be on belay.

As soon as the second feels the leader finish pulling up slack, and then a few seconds later some more tugs, the second knows they are safe to climb.

This systems works if you can't hear anything from anyone.
The most important thing is that you aren't dicking around with the anchor or anything once you start to pull rope up.

thecornyman wrote:This created so much f-ing rope drag using my full body weight I was able to pull up about 2-3 inches of rope at a time on the p3 belay.

I've certainly screwed up a pitch before and not extended a piece and then gone around a corner or up a roof.

If you can downclimb and fix the problem, do so.

Otherwise struggle up to the belay or build an anchor where you are Just keep pulling like normal and you will slowly pull up slack.
Your partner may never know when you've gone from leading to pulling up rope and will keep you on belay until you run out of rope.

At this point he will have to start climbing.

Eventually your partner gets to where the rope problem was and then things get easier.

Whatever you do, as your elbows burn and your you gasp for air pulling up rope, let it be a lesson to properly extend your pro next time.

Peter Franzen wrote:Since radios have been mentioned... Does anyone have a recommendation on some good current 2-way radios? Are Motorolas still the go-to brand? A lot of units seem to be boasting 20+ mile ranges, which is obviously overkill for climbing where it's unlikely that you'll need a range of more than a few hundred feet (except for rescue scenarios, I suppose. More range might be useful there).

I have used several types of radios for this purpose, but haven't done so for several years. The reason is...

Radios work great - until they break. In my experience they break a lot while undergoing the rigors of climbing. Then not only are you out some $, but your partner is waiting for your signal that never comes. Also I had one explode in a chimney one time and rain batteries down on a group below me (sorry again, whoever you are!) at Tahquitz on Whodunnit several years ago.

As for the second question, the range seemed highly variable b/c of the rock getting in the way. Sometimes low-range ones would work great, and sometimes high-range ones would not. Again, it is then difficult when your second is expecting a radio call that never comes.

Radios seem to work decently enough for some people, but my experiences were not that great.

One other consideration is that it is hard to feel like you are 'getting away from it all' with a radio squawking in your ear.

Just my 2 cents. HTH.
-Mike

Mike wrote:As for the second question, the range seemed highly variable b/c of the rock getting in the way.

+1

They should advertise the range as "20 miles or 50 feet of granite" If you're on a wandering route and a lot of rock gets between you and your belayer, reception suffers. Still, even on long pitches that turn corners I've never completely lost contact, even with the cheap radios I use.

My climbing partners and I use Morse Code to communicate. I'll use my largest hex, which never gets used aside from this; bang it against the rock. The cow bell like sound is pretty distinct and carries pretty well.

Or, if we have radios, I'll use the "beep" button on it to relay my Morse Code.

Majority of my climbing pals don't know Morse Code, so I one time carried a mega-phone, but that didn't work that well. I just ended up shouting at others and my partner just stool still at the belay station like a deer starring at incoming head lights. Plus, shouting through a mega-phone is pretty bad etiquette, especially when you see the birds fly away every time you spoke through the device, so I gave that up.

In the end with those that couldn't Morse Code, I would climb with them in the gym and we would devise a solid communication protocol before heading outside for the real deal. That has worked out pretty well. I was able to filter out potentially bad climbing partners, too.

Lots of good info here. I really hate the idea of radios. Don't want the weight or an electronic device of any kind along. My wife thinks I should have my cell phone with me. But I like being out there away from the "static" of life.

Having a system in place in the event that you cannot communicate with your partner, as in tugs, before the leader goes up is my preference. When I was 18 and camped for a month in Eldo I figured this system out. My buddy lead up the second or third pitch of the Redgarden Route. The creek was so loud I could not hear. The rope went tight and after a couple of minutes and lots of yelling I started climbing. I stopped when a big loop of slack formed and when it went tight I started climbing again. We climbed about 200 feet with our 165 foot rope. After that we had the tug system in place.

Love thinking back on those days of education, since I survived.

Doubles as chimney pro.