Ice Climber dies in Avalanche
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I was made aware of this sad news when checking conditions for Cody |
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In the online Climbing article it says, "Spencer ripped the full length of the icy lead rope through Jenkins belay device." |
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John J. Glime wrote:In the online Climbing article it says, "Spencer ripped the full length of the icy lead rope through Jenkins belay device." Okay, obviously this happened, but I don't really understand how it could...Imagine trying to hold a coal train running at full power with your belay device. You couldn't do it. A quarter-mile-wide, 5- to 10-foot-deep slope of snow had fallen more than 1,500 feet when it hit them. The power... |
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Dougald MacDonald wrote: Imagine trying to hold a coal train running at full power with your belay device. You couldn't do it. A quarter-mile-wide, 5- to 10-foot-deep slope of snow had fallen more than 1,500 feet when it hit them. The power...It's more like trying to belay someone that's been hit by a train rather than trying to catch the train itself. In theory it should be possible, but there are all sorts of variables. I think the key word here is the "icy" lead rope. If the rope was dry I would expect the anchor to fail first, especially given that he was seconding the pitch when hit by the avalanche. Here's some information about belay device holding power on a dry rope: mra.org/services/grants/doc… The Climbing article says he was being belayed with a Trango Jaws device directly off of two long (assume 21cm?) screws equalized with a sling. As far as I know, the Jaws device does not have an autolocking mode, does it? If not, then belaying directly off of the anchor means the belayer would have to pull the tail of the rope UP in order to brake - which would be nearly impossible in an avalanche. But the climbing article then says that the belay was completely locked off, so I think that one of these two details must be incorrect. If you assume that the magazine got the type of belay device right and the setup wrong, then the next most likely belay setup would be jaws on the harness, redirected through the anchor point. This would increase the friction on the rope but not by much if the rope is wet or icy. In any case, thank god the anchor didn't fail and send both of them to the ground. |
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Marc -- those are indicated ultimate strengths of the belay device; not how much you can hold. |
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An important point is that even if the belay had held, he would still be dead. If you are hit by a train (avalanche), being on belay won't save you. Amazing the belay wasn't ripped out. |
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This is a very sad day for everyone touched by this story, my deepest sympathies to his family. |
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Thanks for the clarification and info Mark. |
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MarcDurant wrote: The Climbing article says he was being belayed with a Trango Jaws device directly off of two long (assume 21cm?) screws equalized with a sling. As far as I know, the Jaws device does not have an autolocking mode, does it? If not, then belaying directly off of the anchor means the belayer would have to pull the tail of the rope UP in order to brake - which would be nearly impossible in an avalanche. But the climbing article then says that the belay was completely locked off, so I think that one of these two details must be incorrect.The article is correct. Mark J. said he often used this set-up when he expected his partner might hang while following. Yes, he had to pull the rope upward to lock off the device, but the Jaws was only slightly above his waist (screws at chest height, with quickdraws and a locking carabiner extending the system). He only had to move his arm up slightly to lock off the rope, and when the slide started he pulled the rope up and over the top of the device, applying as much braking pressure as possible. (This is what I meant by the belay being "completely locked off.") The icy ropes were a major factor in the slippage, but the primary factor was the extreme force of many tons of snow pushing his partner downward. As someone else pointed out, if Mark had been beleaying with an autolocking device like a Reverso, he'd be dead, as the screws would have failed. Mark also believes that if he'd been belaying off his harness he'd be dead, because his falling partner would have pulled him into the main flow of the avalanche. As it was, he was only inches from being killed by falling debris. He was extraordinarily lucky to have survived. |
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Jim Amidon wrote:Analyzing it afterwards especially when one person is alive on the forum is pretty poor taste... 2centsI have never heard of analyzing an accident as being poor taste. It is called accident analysis. I think it is a common human condition and has been practiced for as long as man has been on the Earth. To not do so would seem in poor taste. I can't think of a known accident that has not been analyzed. Did I miss something? |
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So think about it this way, your out doing your thing at your place, maybe Cody, maybe Colorado, and then all of a sudden, (sudden being things went from ho-hum to holy shit) |
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Of course it's sad, I'm pretty sure there are multiple condolences in this post alone and I can't imagine how terrible it must be for those directly involve. I've been in similar but unrelated to climbing situations and they suck big time. But if I were the belayer and there was anything that might have been done different OR just right to the best of the situation I sure as heck would want that info out there to help others. We analyze accidents to help prevent future accidents as much as possible, not to blame those involved. |
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Dougland - I really appreciate your reply giving more information about the belay setup. |
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Mark Nelson wrote: Also note the neither gri-gri nor cinch slips.Is this true? According to this Petzl document: en.petzl.com/ProduitsServic… the grigri starts slipping with a static pull of 3.8 kN on a 10 mm rope. Or am I reading the bottom of page 6 incorrectly? |
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Jim Amidon wrote: Really unless your one of the two in the situation shouldn't we all back off until the survivor has the time and want to post what happened ??? Your hard core buddy you've spent multiple amazing experiences with is gone... too bad and soo sad.....I hear ya Jim; he's already submitted a write-up elsewhere. This site also has a memorial category to pay respects. belay devices were brought up about in a research paper that needed a little more info as well as rig positioning; that's all. |
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Sad to hear this, big wake up call for all of us. Please be careful in avy prone areas. I myself will find a different route if there is a lot of snow above a climb I want to do. |
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TIM DANLEY wrote:Sad to hear this, big wake up call for all of us. Please be careful in avy prone areas. I myself will find a different route if there is a lot of snow above a climb I want to do.Maybe it was the guy taking your biners. In that case you got what you wanted. Bad karma. |