Denver Area Drytooling

I’m interested in hearing from the local community about finding some summer drytooling areas in the Denver area. A few routes and areas come to mind. I think the Nautilus Cave Pitch, in Morrison, would be a fun climb to run drytool laps on. The sport wall, above tunnel one, has Pet Semetary, and High Wire Crag, (which this site describe as “not a great crag”) has several unnamed 1 star routes. I personally don’t see a problem with setting my axes into a 1 star, bolted choss pile, that doesn’t see much traffic. That being said, I’m not going to run out and do it if it offends the community’s sensitive ethics.

I’m not trying to reopen this discussion about drytooling in the Sport Park,
mountainproject.com/v/gener…, but I think some good points were made about finding a few drytool specific areas to practice on. Living in the Denver area I’d really like to find a few places close where I can get out and practice quickly and easily after work. I think that Clear Creak Canyon and Morrison both have their share of bolted, rotten rock. I also think that they both have a fair amount of rock that rarely sees traffic.

Which brings me to my final question for everybody; does anyone have any good ideas about an area, a wall or a boulder that those of us who would like to can drytool on? Something close to Denver would be great, something that most of us can all agree on would be even better.

Morrison has over 40 years of history and several notable names like Gill, Long, Holliday, Breashears, etc. attached to it and you want to tear the place up with that shit? Drytooling would totally fuck the rock up there. For that matter, you should not ever consider scratching up someone else's route regardless of your opinion about the choss factor. Go find your own little pile somewhere and put your own gear in.
I sense your sincerity (albeit misguided), but what you are planning is not very different from graffiti.

I definitely like drytooling Jason. just another form of climbing it definitely has been a challenge to find a place to drytool.saw that you have a home wall maybe get some of the new drytooling holds and get it done. I know that people tool in vail even in the summer. if you are interested I would join you in the summer.if you do decided to drytool somewhere keep it on the dl. say nothing...i do

Mike- I think that you missed the point of my post. I would like to go and drytool and play on a whole lot of climbs in the area but I'm not going to. I don't "want to tear the place up with that shit? Drytooling would totally fuck the rock up there" as you said I would. I respect the FA climbers and the climbs in the area. Which is why I'd like to find a place to drytool that won't disturb climbs or climbers. So instead of admonishing my ideas maybe you could offer some constructive infomation about where you think I could get some drytooling in that won't disturb you or other climbers.

Kevin- I love having my home wall and hang all over it with my Axes, but it just doesn't compare with real rock. If you have a place in mind, we could definatly get together this summer and drytool on the DL. I was thinking about trying the walls under the couple of ice climbs up in Clear Creek Canyon, several have good anchors for a top rope.

Your post specifically notes that tooling the Nautilus Cave would be fun and that there are many chossy routes in CCC....but whatever.
My point is that you need to find your own place for this, not anything established. Considering how long new route builders have been scouring the front range, you are likely stuck with choss.
With that in mind, and keeping with my being a benevolent asshole, here's a few areas to explore off the top of my head:

• The rock around Eldora
• The Castlewood-looking stuff off of I-25 and Tomah Road
• Obscure crap up Coal Creek (but not one of the climbable crags)
• Monument Rock
• The Dakota sandstone off of C-470 and Quincy
• I don't think anyone would mind if you wanted to dry-tool on Shit Pile at Devils Head, but nothing else up there.

Many of these areas may have property concerns.

Mike Lane wrote: * Obscure crap up Coal Creek (but not one of the climbable crags)

You could say the same in Clear Creek, just don't hit up the free-climbing rocks. There's plenty of dogcrap to tool on, it just won't be Vail.

John-

Did you look into drytooling any of the rock under the Ice Climbs up in CCC? I think Mayhem Gulch, Beer Garden and Mickey's Big Mouth, all have summer drytooling potential. All three are close, they have good anchors and they have already been scratched up by winter use and (feel free to correct me) I don't think they see summer climber use.

The other spot I've considered is the river trail that starts at the entrance to Tunnel 1. There are several short sections in that area that don't see much traffic, and in terms of defacing the rock, all the local teens have already sprayed Graffiti all over the rock.

Go to Clear Creek Canyon, find a pile of shit with no routes on it, bolt it YOURSELF and then have yourself a goofy time.

Wow, I was just going to post a similar thread/forum. I too want to find and climb a dry-tool only/specific area near Denver. I want to find an area that has no established routes, a place where sporto's won't climb for fear of getting their lycra dirty, a place with Vail-esque choss, turf, so-so stone, good hooks and is at least somewhat boltable.

I'm not advocating drytooling on established rock climbing crags, but we definitely need and deserve an area to develop just like everyone else, no? Mixed climbers unite!!! ;-)

I live just north of CCC and was driving through it yesterday. I think I found a good area. The wall looked like its never been climbed due to all the moss, turf, weeds and bushes covering the thing. From 50mph it looked like it had plenty of features for hooking, maybe its too easy for rock climbers and that's why it hasn't been developed? Anyway, I would like to check it out soon if anyone wants more info or help I'd be willing.

johnL wrote:What about the art museum downtown? It's got some really steep sides.

Just don't tool up the sculpture out front with the really hard offwidth. That would be a shame to scratch it all up. Better to coat that crack in chalk.

I think that we should Bolt, Chip and Glue, that old tunnel up in CCC. That would make for some great Drytooling. Hang a few chains from the top, drill some pick holes, it would be awesome Spring and fall training. Completly out of the elements.

Skeeter- Where's the wall you saw, or should we keep it a secret from the sport climbers. If you know a place and have a drill I'm there, just let me know and we can set some good routes.

It's starting to look like we have several climbers interested in establishing and area or two used for dry tooling and ice training. Let me know if you have anything that you would like to add, Were still looking into crags and walls to bolt,(we'd like to find stuff in at least the M8 range)So if you have an idea, post it here or drop me a line. Also, we're looking for people with bolting skills and drills that would like to help out.

Thanks to all for the continued imput and suggestions.

Mike Lane wrote:...you want to tear the place up with that ####? Go find your own little pile somewhere and put your own gear in. I sense your sincerity (albeit misguided)

Those of you who Drytool need a place too, I understand that, but just be smart and dont go jack some nice place or good crag. Even potenial crags or stuff on the beaten path, ya know? Thus, "finding your own choss pile", out of sight and off the radar, seems like a great idea. Have fun- no chipping, glueing and drilling needed- I dont think the natural climbs you do have glue, chips and drill holes.....do they?? Seriously now....

I dont know about close to Denver, but CSprings as a series(5) of old train tunnels that are easy access, not on private property and would be great for steep drytooling. They are also not on the beaten path and wont be affected in any way by the tooling. If you want some info, let me know. Do some research and go balls out- smartly and respectfully. Good luck!

Shane Neal wrote: Those of you who Drytool need a place too, I understand that, but just be smart and dont go jack some nice place or good crag. Even potenial crags or stuff on the beaten path, ya know? Thus, "finding your own choss pile", out of sight and off the radar, seems like a great idea. Have fun- no chipping, glueing and drilling needed- I dont think the natural climbs you do have glue, chips and drill holes.....do they?? Seriously now.... I dont know about close to Denver, but CSprings as a series(5) of old train tunnels that are easy access, not on private property and would be great for steep drytooling. They are also not on the beaten path and wont be affected in any way by the tooling. If you want some info, let me know. Do some research and go balls out- smartly and respectfully. Good luck!

Routes have been going into those tunnels, so please don't dry tool there.

Whoa, Slow down guys...
C-Springs is too far away.
So you won't have to worry about us up there.

Shane Neal wrote:Those of you who Drytool need a place too...Even potenial crags or stuff on the beaten path, ya know?

Wait, so how do we know if it has potential to become a rock climbing only crag? Rock (Sport/Trad) climbers have first say? Weren't all crags messy shrubby choss piles before they were cleaned up?

I'm just wondering if we start putting in the effort to establish a drytooling area, then the rock climbers come along and say, "Hey, this is nice, thanks for the work!" now its a no drytooling place?

I just got back from CCC where I did a close up inspection of the wall I mentioned earlier. Its on the south side of the creek. Right now there is no indication of climbs on it. No Tyrolean in the area, no way yet to get to it w/o hip waders. The wall is covered in moss, weeds, bushes and dirt. There are some ledges, small roofs, that would make for some decent drytooling routes. It's tall enough to get at least 2 pitches out of, maybe a short 3rd. The rock looks decent enough to bolt if need be. Its going to take some work to establish, but its easily doable if there's enough interest.

I'll continue to watch it for activity, but I really don't see how anyone has climbed this thing as messy as it is. But it is near some established area's. Not sure how sensitive that's going to be.

BrettPierce wrote: Routes have been going into those tunnels, so please don't dry tool there.

Hey Brett- Really?? The ones above Manitou? Thats interesting. I'll have to check it out. PM me on it..?? BTW- I was just trying to say "that type of spot" would be best for the DT craft it seems....the workout and the rock.

And Skeeter... I wasnt saying rock climbing only, etc., that you perceived. Im just trying to get across that DT has a bigger impact and thus that should be taken into account when picking a crag- where, the rock quality and the visibility. Seems common sense to me...?? Climbers are climbers to me, no need to segregate between us. We should all just exercise good choices and ethics concering our climbing type of choice.

Like I said before, good luck.

If there is no need to segregate climbers from climbers, then why I ask should we dry tool enthusiasts be shunned away to the shit piles of choss "off of the beaten path"? If there is a nice looking piece of rock, with no routes on it, tool it, bolt it, scratch it up. What are we the lepers of the climbing community? Why should we have last pick. How many rock routes are there in the metro area? Several thousand, at least? and how many DT routes, 10-20? What the hell is wrong with our portion of the community developing a crag? As well, if we want to bring ethics into the debate, what is really wrong with scratching up a piece of rock that has been grid bolted, chipped, glued, even in some cases completely manufactured? Oh, it might deface the natural beauty of the rock, right? In a span of geological time the minuscule scratches and marks created by steel on rock, will erode and weather away. Just as the loose flakes and blocks that were cleared away for a route to go in ("chipping") would have fallen off over time. How long will the drilled pockets in CCC take to erode away? How long until the epoxy in Sport Park decays away to the point of "leave no trace" cleanliness? This brings me to my next point, exempt tunnels should be fair game for everyone. They are one of the VERY VERY few spots where DT'ers can find the desired steep, sustained rock. Besides, ethics in dynamite blasted tunnels are completely out of the window. Not only that, but they ARE "off the beaten path" and out of view. Just my opinion.
On another note, have faith my fellow tool handlers, salvation is on the way. Myself and a select few are out there putting up DT lines, sport and trad. And they WILL be posted on the proj as they come, sooner rather than later.
-Z

Climbing rock using ICE(not rock) tools without any ice or snow involved?

Huh?

Not only does this have the extreme potential to damage exsisting rock climbs...it's just silly.

Go find your choss and stop whining.

josh

Phoenix wrote:If there is no need to segregate climbers from climbers, then why I ask should we dry tool enthusiasts be shunned away to the shit piles of choss "off of the beaten path"? If there is a nice looking piece of rock, with no routes on it, tool it, bolt it, scratch it up. What are we the lepers of the climbing community? Why should we have last pick. How many rock routes are there in the metro area? Several thousand, at least? and how many DT routes, 10-20? What the hell is wrong with our portion of the community developing a crag? As well, if we want to bring ethics into the debate, what is really wrong with scratching up a piece of rock that has been grid bolted, chipped, glued, even in some cases completely manufactured? Oh, it might deface the natural beauty of the rock, right? In a span of geological time the minuscule scratches and marks created by steel on rock, will erode and weather away. Just as the loose flakes and blocks that were cleared away for a route to go in ("chipping") would have fallen off over time. How long will the drilled pockets in CCC take to erode away? How long until the epoxy in Sport Park decays away to the point of "leave no trace" cleanliness? This brings me to my next point, exempt tunnels should be fair game for everyone. They are one of the VERY VERY few spots where DT'ers can find the desired steep, sustained rock. Besides, ethics in dynamite blasted tunnels are completely out of the window. Not only that, but they ARE "off the beaten path" and out of view. Just my opinion. Z

So much is wrong with that it's not even funny. You answered your own question.

Q-Why do we have to be the lepers of the climbing community?
Q-So what's wrong with scratching our way up established rock climbs

A-There's your answer, rock climbers are afraid of some dry tooler peeling the holds(no matter how they got there) off the rock! That's why ya'll are lepers man.

I would love to see someone pull that crap on a Bob D' route as he walks up, or most rock climbers for that matter.

Edit-Seriously, just find a pile of shit (just like ice is), with no routes already established, bolt it and go coo coo bananas...

Phoenix wrote:If there is no need to segregate climbers from climbers, then why I ask should we dry tool enthusiasts be shunned away to the shit piles of choss "off of the beaten path"? If there is a nice looking piece of rock, with no routes on it, tool it, bolt it, scratch it up. What are we the lepers of the climbing community? Why should we have last pick. How many rock routes are there in the metro area? Several thousand, at least? and how many DT routes, 10-20? What the hell is wrong with our portion of the community developing a crag? As well, if we want to bring ethics into the debate, what is really wrong with scratching up a piece of rock that has been grid bolted, chipped, glued, even in some cases completely manufactured? Oh, it might deface the natural beauty of the rock, right? In a span of geological time the minuscule scratches and marks created by steel on rock, will erode and weather away. Just as the loose flakes and blocks that were cleared away for a route to go in ("chipping") would have fallen off over time. How long will the drilled pockets in CCC take to erode away? How long until the epoxy in Sport Park decays away to the point of "leave no trace" cleanliness? This brings me to my next point, exempt tunnels should be fair game for everyone. They are one of the VERY VERY few spots where DT'ers can find the desired steep, sustained rock. Besides, ethics in dynamite blasted tunnels are completely out of the window. Not only that, but they ARE "off the beaten path" and out of view. Just my opinion. On another note, have faith my fellow tool handlers, salvation is on the way. Myself and a select few are out there putting up DT lines, sport and trad. And they WILL be posted on the proj as they come, sooner rather than later. -Z

Are you for real dude..... I see why you DT. It belongs in caves. And the scars you leave are hardly tiny scratches. Know what your talking about before you rant. Each form of climbing has common sense guidelines- COMMON SENSE. So just use it. IE- DT belongs on off the beaten path choss!! Its not about a battle between any other climbing type and DT's. Its JUST COMMON SENSE. :)

BTW- Hank is right- in his statement and that you answered your OWN question. Plus- you termed DT's a lepers....why? Hmmm... And, what you said about tunnels is exactly what I said...lol...nice attack....lol. Again, think first.