Southern Arete 

I should add that some climbers call this a Grade IV and not a Grade V. I'm sure none of these climbers have been forced to bivy.

There is a bit of a problem with the Grade V designation in the Black, probably more pronounced in recent years as slightly longer, slightly (or significantly) harder routes have been done. While many consider the Scenic Cruise the benchmark Grade V in the canyon, it is really one of the lesser involved routes of this grade in the Canyon, certainly now with routes like the Free Nose and the Black Hole. On the other side of the involvement range, if you consider Debutante's Ball a Grade V then I think the classification system falls apart.

Perhaps using a plus / minus system works (Grade V-, V, V+), perhaps designating some climbs (Debutantes Ball for example) a Grade IV, and others (the Free Nose) a Grade VI, will clarify things.

All in all, I would consider the Southern Arete a Grade V, although a fast party can climb it, well, pretty fast. A lot of the route is easy, but I could not consider this comparable in commitment, length, etc. to an established Grade IV like Journey Home- unless you consider JH Grade III.

By the way, Pennings and Hollenbaugh climbed the Southern Arete, Astro Dog, and the Scenic Cruise in one 24 hour shot. Whimps.

C'mon, Steve, aren't you ever going to add Air Voyage to the site?? I need another life-time project to drool over...

Some friends confirmed that the upper 5.10 crack pitch on the Southern Arete is some of the best crack climbing in the Black. This is just around the corner from the runout 5.9 slab, near the top of the wall. It is also possible to keep traversing right 100 feet, then climb a mungy couple of pitches with some OW, runouts, and a poorly-protected 5.10 section. Did this once and do not recommend it.

Steve: You are absolutely correct about the difficulty manifest in any attempt to assess or assign an objective rating to a subjective endeavor. Climbing in the "Black" is as subjective as it gets. The Southern Arete of the Painted Wall is for me a perfect example of just how subjective climbing in the Black can be.

The first time I did this route was in the mid 70's. Though I had the benefit of a seasoned and gnarly Black Canyon veteran as a leader I was but a mere whelp of limited experience about to embark on my first adventure over five pitches long. I remember being battered,thrashed and terrified and that was just from the approach. We managed to pull off one of the earliest one day free ascent of this classic route. We third classed most of the middle of the route up to 5.8. and simul-climbed a good deal as well. But there are still three distinctly more difficult sections on that route that require serious concentration. The crux pitch was superb, exposed difficult climbing on great rock, with the hardest moves right on the edge at the lip of the big overhang. Limping back to (desperately needed) water in camp at dusk, I had no doubt that, even though it was my first, the Southern Arete was what a Grade V was all about.

The second time I did this route was more than a decade later when as the gnarled experienced veteren I was initiating the latest whelp d'jour. I was confident that having done the route before and having filled out my resume of comparitive experiences that this was going to be a romp. I even had temerity to schedule a date with my girl friend back in Gunnison that same evening. Well the "Black" is never casual and up high I got way off route and way spiced out at dusk.

We spent a surprisingly uncomfortable bivy way off the deck on a doormat sized jumble of broken rock in the middle of one of the epic pegmatite bands that eventually flow into the dragon. With less than a sniff of water and a dwindling bag of mini snickers for sustenance between us, we huddled together in a single bivy sac sleeplessly starring at the river foaming 2000 feet below. To this day more than fifteen years later I can't look a snickers in the nuts without gagging.

To further complicate this adventure, I was deeply troubled by the realization that not only was my girlfriend being stood up, but she had also likely by now realized I'd borrowed her car with out asking. We almost took off climbing again when the moon filled the canyon to over flowing but the morning clearly showed how fatally flawed that line of reasoning would have proven. Dicey poorly protected pegmatite traversing into those unprotected off widths you so wisely advised others to avoid. Dry heaving noughat up those last cracks to the rim I still had no doubt that the Southern Arete was what Grade V was all about.

Now that there are these ultra humans like Mike Pennings, Jon Copp and a few others who can link more than one of these monster routes togther in a single day, which I find totally AMAZING and more than a litte depressing,it still doesn't down grade the routes. A route given a 5.12 rating by overall consensus is still a 5.12 whether flashed by a 5.14 hotshot or thrashed by a 5.10 has been. One man's Grade V is another womans' warm-up, but it is still a Grade V. I agree that even though there is a good deal of moderate climbing on the Southern Arete, taken as a whole it is a Grade V.

I also agree that some of the really intense routes in the "Black" might best be considered Grade VI. Your idea of adding a (-/+) is a good one, and less pretentious than an (a,b,c,d)system. It should add clarity to what is at best an imperfect means of diseminating beta.

So how about this. Why not approach the concept of ratings like golfers and golf courses do. Knowing your own handicap you choose your virtual starting tee position. If you are a super bad ass you know that a given climb is for you a blue tee start. If you are just a regular bad ass then you step up to the red tees. White tees are for the proletariat masses and if you are just an ass and bad you know that your ascent begins from the puke yellow tees. Other than the inevitable club house lie about your handicap B.S. this would allow climbers to keep track of their own standards. As it should be. Thus eliminating the messy need to retro print all those guide books and web sites.

Biked in on friday night to climb this.what an outstanding adventure!the canyon is in great shape, no snow on anything on N. chasm or Painted walland not much snow in SOB.

What a route. Probobly the most spectacular thing I have ever done!the crack pitches up top are AMAZING!pulling through two way exposed roofs, with about 2000' feet of air below you, on perfect hands and fingers!

i don't think this route would be possible in a day without simulclimbing some of it.we did it in 8 or 9 pitches and it still took us 10 hours river to rim.

the season we all feared is here, see you there!

When you hit the 5.9 face with little pro do not go straight above! The holds and chalk look promising, but about 20' up the climbing becomes much harder than 5.9. The easier (and safer) way goes out to the pegmatite band out right. On the 10 pitch above the obvious jug is waiting for someone to pull on it so it can kill your belayer directly below. We would have trundled it but a party was retreating from Journey Through Mirkwood below. Also if The Cruise is grade V then so is the Southern Arete! SUPER CLASSIC!

this route is awesome. long and superb. it starts lower and tops higher than most all other routes in the canyon. excellent rock (don't be discouraged by painted wall nightmare tales, this route is quite solid, especially for the black). as for the crux pitch, it is possible to finish directly above the 5.9 runout slab. in the new guide book this variation is denoted by an arrow, and the word "NO." However, my partner decided it was the choice line, and i followed it at something around 5.11 sketchy. personally i wouldn't reccomend it, especially since everyone says the .10 crack is stellar.

Fantastic route. Steve's description of the route is really good; using that, we had no route-finding problems. I also had the opportunity to scout the route from the Dragon Point overlook on the south rim, which is extremely helpful if you get the chance.

Regarding the rack, we didn't bring the 'optional 5" piece' and saw no need for one, but I would strongly recommend bringing a #4 camalot, rather than racking only to 3.5". You will find it handy on all the chimney and offwidth pitches, and more importantly, it is large enough to back up the tube chock on the offwidth crux pitch, or replace it if it's missing. Nothing smaller would fit there.

This thing is fairly chossy but nearly all the climbing, especially the occasional harder bits but even the easy 5th stuff, is really fun. The position and views are amazing and get better and better the higher you go; overall it feels more like climbing a mountain than simply a big cliff. Also, after the initial 5.8 corner system (which is festooned with bail slings), you can count the fixed pieces in the final 1800' on one finger!

EDIT: A variation to avoid the '5.9 face with little pro' section
After the crux OW pitch with the fixed tube chock, don't continue up the 5.7 'no pro' chimney directly above (as shown in the guidebook topo). [If you go that way, you'll have trouble moving back to the right side of the arete later on.] Instead of going up the chimney, move right into a left-facing corner, which has a fixed piton, and head onto the expansive face right of the arete. From here, you can look for the recommended 5.10 crack, or take other options to the right.

George, that's interesting. I'm not sure what you mean by "trouble". We did the 5.7 no pro chimney (an obvious feature), and it led directly to the 5.9R face pitch, described by Steve Levin above, and by the book. I thought that pitch was "trouble" in the sense that it was potentially dangerous, but it was on route and easy to find (and awesome climbing I might add).

How well did your variation protect? The existence of a less scary variant might make this route more attractive for me to repeat some day, as the 5.9R pitch is for sure the mental crux of this route, the way we did it.

Hmm..
We climbed the 5.7 no pro chimney pitch and looked at and started the "5.9 thin face". We thought it was much harder than 5.9 and poorly protected, so we retreated back to the previous belay (just above the fixed tube pitch), using a sling and biner someone before us had left on a horn to rappel.
The corner to the right of the 5.7 chimney that we took was well-protected, and about 5.8. At this point, we were no longer following the topo, so (at the time) we didn't know where the stellar 5.10 crack was. Looking at the photo posted on mp.com afterwards, I remember seeing it when we were up there, and I think we could have gotten to it reasonably from our variation. The 5.9/5.10- faces that we did instead were farther to the right and somewhat chossy but protected moderately well, and we passed two more fixed pins this way. Done this way, I felt the toughest pitch on the route was the 5.10 OW with the fixed tube chock (but we were bummed to miss the 5.10 crack that is reputedly the best in the Black).

If I do this climb again, I'd take this variation, but then aim for the recommended 5.10 crack.