Like the Cable Route, this route is also not on the Diamond. However, of all the routes I have done on Long's, I get the most requests for beta on this one. It is very fun and popular.
Kiener's Route, also known as the Mountaineer's Route, is on the East Face of Long's and climbs parallel to the Diamond on the left. To get to the route start hiking at the Longs Peak trailhead and hike until you reach the cutoff for Chasm Lake. Hike to Chasm Lake and contour around it to the right in the summer, or walk right over it in the winter. On the other side of the lake is Mill's Glacier and the bottom of the Lamb's Slide. The whole 2500 ft East Face is towering above you at this point, it's quite intimidating.
The Lamb's Slide is a 1000 ft. snow/ice coulior that starts on the Mill's Glacier and cuts south under the Diagonal Wall. When you're at the bottom of it, it's fairly obvious. Strap on your crampons and climb this couloir at an angle of about 50 degrees for about 1000 feet. The conditions can vary from corn snow to powder to hard, dry ice. To be absolutely sure, it is a good idea to rope up and place a screw or two every ropelength. To save time, I would suggest simul-climbing.
Eventually on the right you come to a large ledge that is covered in loose rocks and scree and dirt. This is Broadway. Traverse Broadway for about 1000 ft. The most dangerous part of the climb is here when you must walk across a ledge and step around some blocks. The ledge is less than a foot wide here and a slip would have you plummeting all the way over the Diagonal Wall. There are one or two moves of 4th class. Most people are roped up here for safety sake, and there are a couple of fixed pins and horns that can easily be slung.
After this airy catwalk you will come to the Notch Couloir. Depending on the season, this couloir can be a very dangerous avalanche hazard. Traverse the bottom of the couloir to ledges on the other side. There are many different ways to go from here and the easiest way is not obvious. Climb up dihedrals for about two pitches. The difficulty can vary from 4th class to 5.4, depending on where you go. Take a set of nuts and be roped up just in case you get yourself into a hairy position.
Above this is 3rd class scrambling up and left, staying generally along the edge of the Diamond. At the very top is a chimney that must be climbed. Here there are also a couple of options, so look for the easiest one. The climbing is about as difficult as down below, maybe 4th class to 5.4. After climbing the chimney for a pitch you have a very short scramble up to the summit.
This route is good in both the summer and winter, but may be a bit more classic in the winter. It will feel like you are climbing a peak much bigger than Long's. This also makes the Broadway traverse more interesting because of snow. I would recommend taking a picket or two in the winter. So, have fun climbing one of the most classic mountaineering routes in the Park!
Protection
Depends on the season and your comfort level on this kind of route. There are sections that are VERY exposed, but luckily these are protected with fixed pins and slung horns. Depending on the season, some people may feel more comfortable with screws for Lamb's Slide. I guess I would recommend bringing 3 ice screws, 1 set of nuts, 2-3 slings and 3-5 quickdraws to be well protected in any season.
One remarkable fact is that the FA of this route (Jan 11, 1925, not 1924?) was in winter! Kiener's partner, Agnes Vaille, died on the descent. I learned this by reading William Bueler's book "Roof of the Rockies". I've climbed this route in both summer and winter, and as you might expect it's definitely more challenging in the winter. More surprising was the fact that the cruxes are not in the same place. In winter, we found the hardest spot on about the 3rd pitch after crossing the Notch Couloir. In the summer, this is a low angle slab, in winter it's iced up with little pro. Also, just below the step around we found tricky, where in the summer I always do this unroped. Its definitely recommended to do this route in the summer before you try it in the winter, so you don't have to worry about getting lost or being off route.
Obviously on a route this long and varied, peoples experiences will differ, so with that in mind I have what I feel could be very helpful beta. I climbed the route in late August. For Lamb's Slide, it was easy to place good rock pro in the cliff at the right side of the couloir, thus negating the need for ice screws. I imagine this would be possible any time of year, though I don't know. I know many people whove gotten lost climbing upper Kiener's. Just past the Notch Couloir, route-finding can be very difficult, and hard terrain lurks all around. We went up and a little right from a fixed anchor, which led us to a wonderful, easy chimney, with only one 5th class move. Exiting the chimney to the right put us on easier ground for the rest of the way. For the final section, where the description mentions a 5th class chimney, we found some ledge leading right over the top of the Diamond (we went up and right from the Notch Couloir) that really didn't exceed 3rd class--though I can honestly remember the best way to find them. But they're there.
I climbed the route in 1995 with my then 11-year old son. It was a great adventure. Moved a lot slower than anticipated. Route finding wasn't difficult. For more photos and trip report see: www.climbri.com/longs.htm
We climbed Kiener's Route in May 2000. What happened there turned out to be somewhat of a small epic. We were caught high on the route by a storm and darkness (we could not see the storm moving in from the other side of the mountain). We decided to climb a little couloir and bivy on a small ledge. After a sleepless and cold night, we climbed to the top of the ridge and found the summit a short distance away. I believe that we climbed the Little Notch, not Kiener's Route proper.
My point is this. Start Kiener's Route early and keep an eye on the weather. Stay on route and know where you are going. Bring adequate food, water, and equipment.
FYI, Lamb's Slide is an ablated mess (July 27, 2002). There is hard grey/black ice, that is, wherever you can see it through the dirt, gravel and cobbles, and there are all sorts of stuff melting out of Mill's Glacier from eras past..... There is lots of water flowing over the surface, carrying debris of all sizes, and lots of free water between the ice and rock. Lamb's Slide is under a constant barage of whistling missiles, all day and all night, some bigger than a 454 big block. It is highly recommended to find an alternate route until things cool off. Pray for some monsoon rains and cooler temps...... The extreme meltout is a pretty impressive sight, though.
I recently watched in horror as a climber parked himself at the base of Lamb's Slide to put crampons on (stopping every minute or so to crouch behind a boulder to hide from flying rocks)- and then proceeded to solo it, dodging rocks big enough to take him out the whole way up! A definite candidate for the 2002 Darwin Awards. Best to stay away from this one until it starts freezing solid at night again, then catch it at first light.
Being anywhere near the base of Lamb's Slide, North Chimney, below the fall line for The Notch, etc. this time of year causes the hairs on my neck to stand up and makes my body ignore fatigue and want to move as quickly as possible to a safer place.
We did a variation that is popular this year due to the extreme meltout of Lamb's and the ensuing rock fall. You climb to the Loft, walk to the north of it and drop down to the top of the ice. We were able to skirt around the ice, but had to rappel one pitch of rock to make it onto Broadway. It was obvious to me that the excessive rockfall was due to rock and mud that had been held in place for years being exposed from the meltout.
Good call on not climbing Lamb's Slide as it is extremely dangerous right now. I once climbed Kiener's after climbing the North Chimney and it worked out fine. We wanted to climb the Casual Route, but it was mobbed. The traverse from this route to Kiener's looks insanely dangerous and loose and Cameron Tague was killed along here, but it goes okay if you're really careful. The scree field isn't as steep as it first looks.
I moved to Kansas City from my mometown of Arvada a few years ago and I'm missing Long's badly. Having been on it only a few times in my youth, Im looking to find a partner for Kiener's.
Any takers?
Also, to the last two or three posters, if June-August present extreme rockfall hazards, when would you all suggest a summit attempt?
Justin, I think last summer was really bad for rockfall in the Lamb's Slide due to extreme melt-out in August, I don't think it was so bad in June. Assuming the drought continues and next summer is warm, plan to climb Kiener's as early in the summer as possible, I'd recommend June (or even earlier). If this winter is very wet, Kiener's should go back to normal and you could climb it fine any time next summer.
The difficulty of traversing Broadway decreases in the spring when the snow melts off of it, in a normal year I think this happens sometime in June. You can certainly still climb the route when Broadway is snow covered, in fact it may be more fun because it feels more alpine. But it's definitely trickier than when melted off.
I remember once a friend was climbing Kiener's in August, and as I had been on the route in May, I gave him a detailed explanation of how to cross Broadway in the snow. After his trip, I said '"so how was traversing Broadway?" "Trivial", he said "I don't know why you were talking about crossing all that snow". Duh, I had forgotten there is no snow on Broadway in August!
George is right. The problem this year was due to the extreme melt out. Rockfall was not *that* bad in late June/early July (at least early, before the sun really got cooking), but it only takes one. Also, the western side of Lamb's Slide had already melted out by that time. Crossing from the snow to Broadway was not a pleasant experience.
On October 2000 we attempted Kiener's Route for the second time. Again, the snow started to fall and darkness soon followed. We were near a red buttress almost all of the way up. The snow was falling heavily and darkness took over, so we were !@#$ out of luck again. Contemplation led us to the decision to descend back down the entire route, which took about seven rappels (I think). We made it down to the base of the Notch Coulior and decided to bivy there. Not the best place to bivy, I realize, but we really didn't know where else to stop. Another sleepless and cold night followed. In the morning we traversed BACK across Broadway which was difficult because the heavy snowfall had covered the rock completely (which really sucked). After a hairy traverse across Broadway we arrived at Lamb's Slide and back to the parking lot several hours later.
Several people told us that we should have kept on going to the top and down the Cable Route. Good idea, but difficult to do at the time. Skipping across the Diamond didn't seem like a good idea then. Any suggestions?
Ok, I just registered so no name. I will be there later under Ron Miller. Anyhow, you all have made this sound like a great climb. I have my space reserved for the CMS climb of Illiamani in July and this would be great practice. As well as a reason and motivation to get in shape. Anyone interested in an April or May climb? rfm10@earthlink.net
Comment: What the hell, another comment on Kiener's Route.
On October 2000 we attempted Kiener's Route for the second time. Again, the snow started to fall and darkness soon followed. We were near a red buttress almost all of the way up. The snow was falling heavily and darkness took over, so we were !@#$ out of luck again. Contemplation led us to the decision to descend back down the entire route, which took about seven rappels(I think). We made it down to the base of the Notch Coulior and decided to bivy there. Not the best place to bivy, I realize, but we really didn't know where else to stop. Another sleepless and cold night followed. In the morning we traversed BACK across Broadway which was difficult because the heavy snowfall had covered the rock completely (which really sucked). After a hairy traverse across Broadway we arrived at Lamb's Slide and back to the parking lot several hours later.
Several people told us that we should have kept on going to the top and down the Cable Route. Good Idea, but difficult to do at the time. Skipping across the Diamond didn't seem like a good idea then. Any suggestions?
Shane, we had a similar adventure in October of 2001. However, we didn't make it off Broadway. Our decent plan resulted in a "What Not to Do" example. Slightly embarrassing (as all the best learning moments are), but successful none the less. We traversed all the way across Broadway to the north chimney (crappy and no fun in the snow). It involved at least one diagonal rappel and plenty of wet sloping ledges. I wouldn't suggest it unless someone just wants a good easy fifth class tour of the E face. If you hadn't reached the notch couloir, I would suggest turning around to escape. If you had passed the notch and were through the early tricky moves, push for the summit (it is also possible to traverse just above the E face to the Cable Route - it is exposed, but it avoids the even more lightning-prone summit plateau) and descend the Cable Route. The notch is definitely a scary place to bivy with tons of potential rock fall.
In regard to timing, its possible to do late summer climbs with minimal rock fall... give it a shot!
Looking for some Beta, from anyone who may have been up on Kiener's recently. I am thinking of heading up to Kiener's this weekend for a quick attempt on Saturday or Sunday depending on the weather. Any recommendations from anyone who's been up that way this year?
It seems to me April and May would be solid months to give this route ago. Before the rockfall picks up in June and July. Did Lamb's Slide come in this year, any beta would be nice.
My name is Bryan Hylenski, I registered, but it would not appear till tomorrow, didn't want to wait!
For the first pitch after traversing the Notch, you can go up a slabby section trending more left than up to a nice 5.7 corner that puts you at the same belay as if you went up the chimney. Same for the last technical pitch--a LH variation is about 5.7-5.8 (starts in a wide crack and finishes in a large R facing dihedral w/ a thin crack. This variation has an old ring piton right at a view through a pinnacle.
Lamb's Slide is soft snow even early--very little evidence of falling rock. Broadway is mostly covered in snow. Above the 3rd cl scrambling, the snow fields are ice below the surface. Great conditions everywhere.
I was on the other party there yesterday, and saw you with your brother. Great website, btw, extremely useful!
Great route and conditions right now, as reported above.
But I have a question/comment concerning the descent: we mistakenly rapped off via the Chasm View rappels and found ourselves at the north end of Broadway. Right now traversing until the North Chimney rappels seems very dicey because of a large block of snow choking the crossing.
To make a long story short, we committed to rapping off some (good) pitons half way on Broadway (between Chasm view and the North Chimney), and ended up on a tiny ledge with a wet crack, half way down. We had to rap off a tri-cam and a brown alien, plus a piece of cord on a block (with only our weight holding it). Scariest rappel I've ever done.
So the comment is: stay off the Chasm view rappels!! (the very first ones after you descend from the North Face). If crossing Broadway is difficult/impossible, you'll be in a most unpleasant situation.
And the question is: what is the best descent to retrieve bivy gear without going around Mt Lady Washington? Are there better rap anchors further west which drop you into the snowfields? Or is it best to cross above all of the Chasm Wall, and simply scramble down the slopes of Mt Lady Washington? That scramble seems a bit annoying but not dangerous.
You rapped down Chasm View to retrieve gear left at the base of the East Face? Bummer. Better to walk down the Camel Route, which is not too far from Chasm View.
Anyone interested in Kiener's, Notch Colouir, or Cable route anytime soon? I'm training for [Rainier] and would like to do some moderate climbs in the meantime.
Anyone traversing Broadway should please take the utmost care not to dislodge rocks onto Lamb's Slide. On July 19 my party witnessed probably 5 or 6 rocks tumbling down Lamb's Slide, and at least one of them (which hit me square in the helmet) was knocked off by a climber on Broadway. Broadway is full of loose rubble, so it is admittedly a difficult proposition not to knock any rocks down, but people climbing Kiener's or the Notch Couloir should be aware that there is significant rockfall hazard on this part of the climb. Amazingly, I haven't seen any mention of this hazard in any of the route descriptions I've read!
I'm planning on doing this Stettner's to Kiener's the last week of July 2003. Any thoughts on conditions this year. Is it snowy, dry? Is the snow all gone from Broadway? Any options for descent if we decide to bail on the top of Kiener's? As we areplanning to head up Stettner's, I would like to avoid crampons and ice axe.
Thoughts?
Thanks in advance.
-David
By Ernie Port From: Boulder, Colorado Aug 23, 2003
Climbed this today for the first time and it was totally awesome. The snow in Lamb's Slide was good...we didn't feel the need for ice screws or rope. Definitely want crampons and an ice axe with you though, as the snow was a bit wet but firm. Also, on Broadway we didn't feel the need to rope up until almost at the Notch Couloir where it got a little too narrow for my liking. Yeah, there's exposure there...but IMO it's not that bad...I jumped on the rock about 50' up the couloir, as Roach suggests in his RMNP book, looking for easier climbing, and found it a few grades harder than the (5.0-5.4) I anticipated. Didn't bring rock shoes and climbed what I felt was (5.6), in approach shoes. Fun climbing though, found a short, fun vertical crack on P2 that was every bit of (5.6). There is a lot of loose rock everywhere up higher in the class 3 section...and the final traverse over the very top of the Diamond has some nice exposure and was a fun climax...saw a rock marten (large 8lb. weasel) hanging around the summit register which entertained us a bit. We rapped down the Cable Route (takes longer than Keyhole descent, but more fun). Recommend car to car as opposed to bivying (keeps the load to a minimum)...
Did Kiener's on Sat 9-27-03. Descending the Cables Route, we found some of the bolts were chopped (looked like old cuts). Anyway, with a 60m rope we failed to reach one of the rap bolts. Had to rap off a stopper and a hex for about 50ft to reach the next bolt-down climbing was out of the question because a good layer of ice has formed on this section.
We did the "Broadway Cutoff" variation to start Kiener's on 7/7. This starts further right of the original line and climbs easy ledges up and left to a chimneylike constriction that was pretty wet. You can traverse left here between a large detached block and the face at around 5.7 to regain the original line. Not the best way, but another option.
Did this route yesterday, car to car 14 hours. First time on the route. The crux was getting off Lamb's Slide to Broadway, which added a lot of time to our trip, hard ice all around there. Up to there was cruiser hard snow, should have done like Charles V. mentioned above, and belaying the hard ice section. Rockfall was very minimal on Lamb's Slide as we as we started up at 0650. We had crampons and ice axes and glad we did. Rest of route from Broadway was a cruise, but stay right after the chimney section on rock portion. (1 200' pitch 5.4 ish, and then 1 200' pitch 4th class/5.0 is how we did it) from just right of Notch Couloir). Rack: 1 super skinny 70m rope, axes, crampons, stoppers, green/yellow Aliens .5 .75 #1 #2 BD cams, 2 ice screws (didn't use but should have), cordalette, 3 shoulder slings, and rock shoes. Extra rock gear was nice to make belay anchors, since my second wasn't up for leading any of the pitches.
As of 8/8/06 the rangers at the Long's Peak station were NOT recommending this route due to the the bulletproof black ice at the top of Lamb's Slide. Global warming? We did the Keyhole Ridge route instead, and met a party on the summit who did do upper Kiener's, approaching via the North Chimney. The leader was casual about it, though hard to judge, as he seemed casual about descending the Cable Route with a very inexperienced and frightened partner.
What a classic! With anything on the East Wall I recommend biv sacking the night before at Chasm Lake. This way your at the base of all the climbing at 5 in the morning and you can beat the crowds and go up the snow while its still at its hardest for the day. The actual route is hard to stay on so study up and do your homework you will thank yourself later on. This route is a lot more challenging in the winter so keep that in mind. Also right below the Diamond Step there is a emergency biv spot just in case... Once at the top most people will rappel down the old cable route then proceed to the camel area to traverse all the way down to Chasm Lake and grab the rest of your gear from the night before. Party on!
Lamb's Slide is presently (1 June 2008) in excellent condition with solid snow until around 10 a.m. MDT, when it turned to isothermal mush. On Kiener's the snow is thin, soft, and fairly dangerous-looking. While was on the Slide, I saw two parties approach the traverse to Broadway, and both (wisely, I think) backed off.
Kiener's might be a reasonable climb this time of year if one could get an early enough start, but I think you'd have to be on the summit before noon in order to take advantage of the good snow.
Climbed Kiener's on July 19. Lamb's Slide was in glorious condition which made the ascent go very quickly. We were in the couloir by 6:30am. We did not need to rope up as the snow was not very steep at all...maybe 40° at most. We were the only party on route the entire day and it was bluebird. The traverse of Broadway is currently snow-free. Routefinding from the base of the Notch Couloir is certainly challenging. My partner and I each had our challenges trying to stay on easily climbable, yet fun terrain. There are many options available. If I were do this again, I'd probably bring a few extra cams and my rock shoes. There were a couple times when my mountaineering boots just wouldn't cut it on some of the slabs and it made for some harrowing moves. It's very easy to get onto more technical rock. Descended via the Cable Route in three short rappels (we only had a single 8.5mm 60m cord). Awesome route.
A friend and I are looking at climbing Kiener's this weekend, and want to descend the Cable Route. Is there any info on how hard it will be to find the rap anchors as we descend from the summit? Are they well marked or will we just be looking for a needle in a haystack?
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