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Colorado Thief caught in the act at Smith
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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Dec 30, 2010
El Chorro

CoffeeClimber wrote:
For what it's worth.... take your draws off. Yes dude was straight up caught stealing. But in his defense (though I still think he should have been punched), he found an opportunity and took a chance at it. I don't clip bolts (trad guy) so I'm not going to get into the whole leave draws/don't leave draws but I will say these two things: (1)if you don't want to take any chance of getting your shit stolen, remove it and (2) redpointing is ground up placing all gear/draws. You my friend, are pinkpointing said route. You'll never see a trad route with a bunch of TCU's and C4's stuck in it because dude is "working" the route.


OMG this is going to go on forever now!

Not that I disagree with you... but you've just opened about 13 cans...


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By Tyson Anderson
From Las Vegas, NV
Dec 30, 2010
Rapping from the top of Cat in the hat

Todd Wilde wrote:
Problem Solved. And no, that's not for real.


HA! How many kNs can that thing take?


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By Micahisaac
From Longmont, CO
Dec 30, 2010
soloing Boulder Canyon Upper Falls

Shouldn't be this hard. Here's the gospel of Micah:

"If ye finds a single piece of gear it is booty, If ye finds a few pieces of gear it MAY be booty. If there is a line of gear going up a route it shall only be removed by: the owner of said gear, the land manager, or Micah intent on returning gear to it's owner (if such judgement calls be necessary). This shall apply to both sport and trad gear. Micah makes no distinction (unless it's a bouldering pad and then it's fair game)."

and Ian, the bolts can be left in the wall until the route goes free on trad gear. Then the bolts may be chopped and waved in the face of the original first ascensionist.


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By Olaf Mitchell
From Paia, Maui, Hi,
Dec 30, 2010
rockerwaves

jeff walker wrote:
interesting the number of people on this thread who think its okay for this fuzzy-faced fuckhead to steal shit just because it aint nailed down. seems like the old blame the victim thing: if you don't want your draws stolen then don't leave them hanging around on some route. right. the guy who steals shit isn't responsible but the guy who has his shit stolen is an idiot who should be more careful. load of bullshit, plain and simple. the guy is a thief and a weasel to boot. defending this dude's behavior makes you a weasel, too. it isn't complicated.

Well I'm with you fellers!


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By Darryl Roth
Dec 30, 2010
Me.

He doesn't need to be beaten...
He doesn't need to be killed...
His vehicle doesn't need to be vandalized...
There is only one thing that needs to be done to him in the meantime...
Get this video on every forum and venue in the climbing world and have it playing on a loop at the Sport Climbing Center in Colorado Springs...

The court of public awareness will sort him out!


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By Buff Johnson
Dec 30, 2010
smiley face

Funny thing, I just went through TSA for my free-dom reach around, they had a sign 5.14 to the express line. Weird.


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By DEF
From CT
Dec 30, 2010

I'm so late...

This is a great video, very impressed with how the situation was handled... but what I didn't see was.. did they get the draws back? This guy seemed pretty content in racking them up on his harness while he sheepishly lame-excused his way out of the situation. Clearly he had no business being near a 5.14, someone afflicted with gingervitis can't possibly handle the smith rock sunshine on a regular basis.

Regardless of how you feel about leaving up draws, or whatever 'legal precedent' might say about whether or not you are committing a crime, everyone knows you shouldn't do it... you are committing a crime against a very basic moral code. It's not illegal to lie to your mother, but everybody knows you shouldn't do it. I was up at rumney and saw a pile of wild country helium draws underneath a climb way above my ability. We were the only people around, I didn't take them as booty, they weren't mine. They were either forgotten, or taken down (but not stolen!) to make a statement about fixed gear without robbing someone of their hard earned money, that just like many of us, they invested into climbing gear.

But as far as the well dressed fellow rapping down pro-level sport routes and helping himself to other peoples gear..sometimes people just deserve to be slapped, this was one of those times.


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By Hank Caylor
Administrator
From Golden, CO
Dec 30, 2010
Lone goat..

CoffeeClimber wrote:
You'll never see a trad route with a bunch of TCU's and C4's stuck in it because dude is "working" the route.


Glad to have a leading spokesman for trad climbers reminding me how those dudes play the game. Not for me though, I'm off to spend mom and dads money on strippers and blow!


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By jeff walker
Dec 30, 2010

CoffeeClimber wrote:
For what it's worth.... take your draws off. Yes dude was straight up caught stealing. But in his defense (though I still think he should have been punched), he found an opportunity and took a chance at it. I don't clip bolts (trad guy) so I'm not going to get into the whole leave draws/don't leave draws but I will say these two things: (1)if you don't want to take any chance of getting your shit stolen, remove it and (2) redpointing is ground up placing all gear/draws. You my friend, are pinkpointing said route. You'll never see a trad route with a bunch of TCU's and C4's stuck in it because dude is "working" the route.


"in his defense" -- dude, you are the same kind of weasel he is if you think this behavior is defensible. "found and opportunity and took a chance at it"? this is just an example of someone showing a little initiative, right? you've got a pretty underdeveloped sense of right and wrong if you think it is okay to just steal things because you "found an opportunity".


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By Eddie Brown
From Tempe, Arizona
Dec 30, 2010

Micah Isaac wrote:
Shouldn't be this hard. Here's the gospel of Micah: "If ye finds a single piece of gear it is booty, If ye finds a few pieces of gear it MAY be booty. If there is a line of gear going up a route it shall only be removed by: the owner of said gear, the land manager, or Micah intent on returning gear to it's owner (if such judgement calls be necessary). This shall apply to both sport and trad gear. Micah makes no distinction (unless it's a bouldering pad and then it's fair game)." and Ian, the bolts can be left in the wall until the route goes free on trad gear. Then the bolts may be chopped and waved in the face of the original first ascensionist.


hahaha! +1


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By Ian
From Boulder, CO
Dec 30, 2010
Way Rambo

Chopping bolts is perfectly acceptable as long as you do it on lead.


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By Brian Abram
From Columbia, SC
Dec 30, 2010
Brian Abram, leading pitch 2 of Dinkus Dog on the South Side of Looking Glass.  Kyle Sox is belaying.

Regardless of what you consider this act, you might wanna check and make sure that calling the guy a thief doesn't incur some liability regarding public, libelous accusations defaming his character, considering this is not a clear-cut case of larceny (as opposed to removing abandoned property), let alone any actual conviction of alleged crime. If the guy is a big enough butthole, which looks to be the case, he may be able to pursue some sort of action against the poster of the video, or maybe even others here advocating or conspiring violence, regardless of who is actually in the right.

I now have a negative opinion of the guy, and I'll never know him.


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By 8egg.nu
Dec 30, 2010

Some one stole some gear from a mixed cave in ouray. a few draws and most importantly a fixed line to get up some sandy slabs to the cave were gone. what ensued was a terrifying sandy, chossy, slab solo. you steel stuff, you could cause a dangerous situation. as soon as you can send M11, 5.14, or 5.9 for that matter hanging your own draws you might have a point. climbing hard takes more than brawn, it takes a commitment to climbing and an investment in time and energy in the climbing community so their opinion does carry more weight than most of ours. sorry.

I have been places where to stop people from stealing draws they put up chain draws or weird rubberized cable draws. The result is something even uglier than a few hanging draws. get over it and enjoy taking some whippers on commitment free routes that you might not get to try other wise. before you know it you will be that 5.14 climbing spray lord.

my stuff is always hanging


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By danny m
From All over
Dec 30, 2010
Ancient Art, UT

jeff walker wrote:
interesting the number of people on this thread who think its okay for this fuzzy-faced fuckhead to steal shit just because it aint nailed down. seems like the old blame the victim thing: if you don't want your draws stolen then don't leave them hanging around on some route. right. the guy who steals shit isn't responsible but the guy who has his shit stolen is an idiot who should be more careful. load of bullshit, plain and simple. the guy is a thief and a weasel to boot. defending this dude's behavior makes you a weasel, too. it isn't complicated.


++1

It is also interesting how many people have no problem with route setters leaving there bolts and hangers on the rock. According to the logic of those that do not believe in working a route or having draws pre-hung route setters should just remove there bolts and hangers from the rock so they donít get stolen. I think itís ironic how some people think draws should not be left on routes but itís perfectly fine to leave bolts, hangers, and chain anchors.


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By 8egg.nu
Dec 30, 2010

danny m wrote:
++1 It is also interesting how many people have no problem with route setters leaving there bolts and hangers on the rock. According to the logic of those that do not believe in working a route or having draws pre-hung route setters should just remove there bolts and hangers from the rock so they donít get stolen. I think itís ironic how some people think draws should not be left on routes but itís perfectly fine to leave bolts, hangers, and chain anchors.


word, nuff said.


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By Tyson Anderson
From Las Vegas, NV
Dec 30, 2010
Rapping from the top of Cat in the hat

Brian Abram wrote:
Regardless of what you consider this act, you might wanna check and make sure that calling the guy a thief doesn't incur some liability regarding public, libelous accusations defaming his character, considering this is not a clear-cut case of larceny (as opposed to removing abandoned property), let alone any actual conviction of alleged crime.


If it's true it isn't libel. Period.


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By Kevin J OBrien
From Santa Fe, NM
Dec 30, 2010

First of all I think it is great entertainment to read all of the crap on this thread. This situation could have been easily taken care of by "God" (the 5.14 climber) explaining what the other climber (the hippie) was doing wrong. I get tired of seeing better climbers thinking they have a right to do anything they want at a crag. I personally think it is funny that the hippie went to such extreme measures to clean up our trashed environment and would like to thank him if I ever get a chance. If the hippie is reading this, I would invite him to send me his e-mail, so that I can donate equipment (aid gear, ropes, etc) to the cause.
The hippie was not stealing, he was just doing his part. Smith Rock is beautiful place where a lot of people come to hike and take in the scenery (it is not owned by climbers last time I checked). As climbers, we think that our activity is more important than anybody's nature experience which I do not think is right. Climbers need to get of their high horses and think about others (especially the 5.13/14 gods of the earth). I see a lot of people using these climbing areas and very few doing anything to keep them clean. We need more hippies in the climbing community to keep things in check.
I would like to end this by saying thank you to the hippie for all of his hard work. I would also like to invite "god" to post when he can red point the route in good, true form.


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By Brian Abram
From Columbia, SC
Dec 30, 2010
Brian Abram, leading pitch 2 of Dinkus Dog on the South Side of Looking Glass.  Kyle Sox is belaying.

Tyson Anderson wrote:
If it's true it isn't libel. Period.


Well that's kinda what I'm saying. It might not be true that theft technically occurred or was attempted, regardless of what your personal definition of theft might be.


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By adam14113
From San Francisco, CA
Dec 30, 2010
homestead

Kevin J OBrien wrote:
First of all I think it is great entertainment to read all of the crap on this thread. This situation could have been easily taken care of by "God" (the 5.14 climber) explaining what the other climber (the hippie) was doing wrong. I get tired of seeing better climbers thinking they have a right to do anything they want at a crag. I personally think it is funny that the hippie went to such extreme measures to clean up our trashed environment and would like to thank him if I ever get a chance. If the hippie is reading this, I would invite him to send me his e-mail, so that I can donate equipment (aid gear, ropes, etc) to the cause. The hippie was not stealing, he was just doing his part. Smith Rock is beautiful place where a lot of people come to hike and take in the scenery (it is not owned by climbers last time I checked). As climbers, we think that our activity is more important than anybody's nature experience which I do not think is right. Climbers need to get of their high horses and think about others (especially the 5.13/14 gods of the earth). I see a lot of people using these climbing areas and very few doing anything to keep them clean. We need more hippies in the climbing community to keep things in check. I would like to end this by saying thank you to the hippie for all of his hard work. I would also like to invite "god" to post when he can red point the route in good, true form.


Apostasy!


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By -sp
From East-Coast
Dec 30, 2010
Buenos Dias!

Kevin J OBrien wrote:
First of all I think it is great entertainment to read all of the crap on this thread. This situation could have been easily taken care of by "God" (the 5.14 climber) explaining what the other climber (the hippie) was doing wrong. I get tired of seeing better climbers thinking they have a right to do anything they want at a crag. I personally think it is funny that the hippie went to such extreme measures to clean up our trashed environment and would like to thank him if I ever get a chance. If the hippie is reading this, I would invite him to send me his e-mail, so that I can donate equipment (aid gear, ropes, etc) to the cause. The hippie was not stealing, he was just doing his part. Smith Rock is beautiful place where a lot of people come to hike and take in the scenery (it is not owned by climbers last time I checked). As climbers, we think that our activity is more important than anybody's nature experience which I do not think is right. Climbers need to get of their high horses and think about others (especially the 5.13/14 gods of the earth). I see a lot of people using these climbing areas and very few doing anything to keep them clean. We need more hippies in the climbing community to keep things in check. I would like to end this by saying thank you to the hippie for all of his hard work. I would also like to invite "god" to post when he can red point the route in good, true form.


I don't think you even watched the video.


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By Ellis Whitson
From Nomadia, Gypsyville
Dec 30, 2010

Ignorance is bliss.


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By Will Copeland
Dec 30, 2010
view off the 4th belay

This man is a thief (although maybe not legally).

Taking draws off a route that you free climb(NOT AIDED!!) is generally fine by me. This motherf****r came to Smith for the FIRST time and thinks it's okay to take draws off a route he AIDED as well as swing back and forth to take them off a route he DIDN'T EVEN CLIMB. Almost any sport climber knows that draws are often left on hard routes via Sharma, Graham, Ojeda, etc. Many of the climbs that I aspire to do (in the very far future) have random draws that are left b/c they are hard clips. I always, as I'm sure many do, ask around to see why certain things are the way they are. Taking draws in this particular case is like taking steel carabiners off a set of chains at the top of a climb.

Trad gear is another story. Bail gear should be taken down if you encounter it, but you should also make it known you found bail gear (via MP, Supertopo, RC, word of mouth, etc) so the person has a chance of recovering it. I will admit that I have kept gear that I never did that with, but in my defense it was a slung hex nut (from a hardware store, not a climbing store) and an old Chouinard nut. I also pull and recycle old pitons if I can pull them out.

just my 2 cents.

Y'all did a great job handling the situation and it's great you got a pic/vid out to the community so this guy can be monitered by others as to keep our community as morally straight as possible.


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By Kevin J OBrien
From Santa Fe, NM
Dec 30, 2010

Everybody that visits Smith Rock is not a climber!!!!! Try thinking of others experience for once!!!


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By Kevin J OBrien
From Santa Fe, NM
Dec 30, 2010

So if I left draws on Bunny Face for three days would you take them? I think you would "god"!!!


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By 8egg.nu
Dec 30, 2010

Kevin J OBrien wrote:
First of all I think it is great entertainment to read all of the crap on this thread. This situation could have been easily taken care of by "God" (the 5.14 climber) explaining what the other climber (the hippie) was doing wrong. I get tired of seeing better climbers thinking they have a right to do anything they want at a crag. I personally think it is funny that the hippie went to such extreme measures to clean up our trashed environment and would like to thank him if I ever get a chance. If the hippie is reading this, I would invite him to send me his e-mail, so that I can donate equipment (aid gear, ropes, etc) to the cause. The hippie was not stealing, he was just doing his part. Smith Rock is beautiful place where a lot of people come to hike and take in the scenery (it is not owned by climbers last time I checked). As climbers, we think that our activity is more important than anybody's nature experience which I do not think is right. Climbers need to get of their high horses and think about others (especially the 5.13/14 gods of the earth). I see a lot of people using these climbing areas and very few doing anything to keep them clean. We need more hippies in the climbing community to keep things in check. I would like to end this by saying thank you to the hippie for all of his hard work. I would also like to invite "god" to post when he can red point the route in good, true form.


when was the last time you saw a hiker in the cocaine gully? perhaps you should clean off your chalk as well?


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