• Regular Friction Mode for normal climbing and rappelling

• High Friction Mode provides two times more friction for greater control and holding power

• In Guide Mode it locks if someone falls & has lowering capabilities

• Unique release point built into the unit

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Thanks John.

Would you recommend people replace their Reversos with this device? I guess I am wondering just how much better than the Reverso you feel this is.

Yes, I would. I sold my reverso on ebay!

After having my new rope ruined and almost completely severed by a too sharp Reverso of my partner's (catching my lead fall, the brake strand cut over the sharp edge created by lowering/rappelling); I am never going back to that particular device.

I auto-lock belayed about 30,000' of rope (ouch) through my ATC Guide this year thus far and can vouch for its ease of handling in this mode as well as its better grip for rappelling and belaying lead falls -- so far the best on the market for this type of belay device.

In more than 15 years of using auto-lock belay devices, I've never had to release one while loaded, so not sure how important a feature this is? Depends on your partner and route selection, I suppose.

Yep, I used the Reverso and Reversino pretty much since they came out and have totally converted to the BD ATC Guide. MUCH better device in all applications. MUCH smoother rope feeding in all modes and excellent grip (ropes from 10.2mm to 8.1mm so far) for belaying/rappeling.

I have to agree....I had a Reverso that I accidentally dropped (maybe it was fate?) and replaced it with an ATC Guide (that I managed to get at 20% off of retail price). The advantages I have seen so far are:

-smoother action and feel of the rope through the device

-easier to give slack in auto-block mode

-doesn't seem to suffer from the wear-sharpening effect of the Reverso

-more friction while belaying in the "normal" mode while locked off

Does anybody know whether the "release point" is full strength?

On my 8mm twins the ATC Guide is sweet beyond words. In every mode it's a beauty.

On my 9.6 single line, same story. It's simply a pleasure to use.

On an older 10.4 that's a little swollen, I almost can't move the rope in autoblock. It does work fine as a simple belay device but on fatter ropes, it's too tight to autoblock.

I've been able to lower 180lb climbers easily in autoblock mode. I thought it was pretty simple.

FWIW, a Neutrino will easily slide into the release point if you don't have a skinny sling handy.


This is a sweet device. Recommended.

Rappelled down single 8.6 and 8.1 while simul-rapelling with the ATC Guide for the Diamond raps. Plenty of stopping power even on a single skinny line, I didn't use or feel the need to use a prussik / auto-block back up. It is good.

At first I was skeptical, but I'm a convert for most cragging applications, especially with groups. For alpine stuff with bivy/ice gear thrown in I still prefer the reversino with my 8.1mm doubles, since in that situation I am interested in lighter weight of *everything*.

There's not a word here from anyone about the Trango B-52. I switched to the B-52 about a year and a half ago after I got fed up with my Petzl Reverso. The B-52 is super light and doesn't bind constantly like the Reverso, which was my main gripe about it (I think it had a tendency to kink up my ropes, too). The B-52 has an auto-locking feature, too, without extra holes or welded keepers. It's easy to set up in auto-locking mode and easy to feed rope when weighted which, in spite of previous comments here, I have found comes in very handy if my partner is hanging and needs to be lowered. You just attach a sling to the binding locker and, when you need to feed weighted rope, pull the sling in the opposite direction of pull.

By the way, I neither work for, nor have I been influenced in any way by, Trango.

Ron, I expected someone might come back with that one. Since there was so much contrast/comparison with the Reverso only, I thought it only fair to throw the the B-52 into the discussion, particularly since it shares the same basic features as the Guide and the Reverso.

You make a good point with regard to wear on the climber's end of the device. Mine is worn and I've wondered about it since, as you point out, that is a critical link in the chain in auto-block configuration. If the owner of Trango says not to use a worn device in auto-block mode that's good enough for me. I did check out the new B-52 on Trango's website today, and it does look beefier all around. I'll be picking one up soon.

The reason why I didn't compare it with the Trango B52 is because I've never used one!

I have a B52 as well, from the first year it came out, and I've always wondered about the relatively thin aluminum on the anchor 'biner end which I see they've recently beefed up.

A couple of disadvantages over the ATC Guide: First, there aren't any grooves or "teeth" to increase the friction for greater catching power and/or skinny rope rappeling. And secondly, in order to use it with double ropes in autoblock mode, you must add a second carabiner to the anchor end which really clutters things up.

There's a lot to be said for the B52, primarily its light weight, but the ATC Guide seems to be more versatile.

I have a Reversino for my 7.7 mm twin lines, but my Reversino has not been used since I bought my ATC guide; it works great for those tiny lines.

Eli, if your rope cut on a Reverso it was because it was rigged backwards. Shame on Petzl for making a device which can slice a rope if rigged wrong. Shame on your belayer for rigging it wrong.

David Champion, I feel like an utter failure for not having influenced you in any way. Shame on my marketing efforts.

Ron, thanks for bringing up the wear thing. Shame on us for making a device which can wear out. We've had a couple dozen returned to us to inspect for "wear" with surprising results: around 80% of the "worn out" one were, in fact, only slightly worn. The anodizing was worn off, giving the appearance of being worn out but when measured with a micrometer, we found them to retain more than 95% of their original thickness. Every one checked out to over 25kN. We did have one which was worn to approximately 50% of the original thickness and it still went to 25kN. The structure of the B-52 is incredibly strong for two reasons. First, it's manufacturered from 7075 T6 aluminum with a tensile strength of over 70,000 psi. Second, the structure is very strong, being supported equally on both sides of the load points with very little leverage. FUN FACT: We beefed it up on the fat end, not to increase the strength, but to increas the size of the area to which the cable is glued. We were having too many rejects in the manufacturing process.

John, shame on me and you for not setting you up with a B-52 to review. It's my favorite device and I think you'd like it. Call me if you want to review one.

Another FUN FACT: The B-52 was not designed with autoblocking in mind. It just turned out that you could do it with the B-52. Unless you're a guide I think it's a highly overrated technique. Eli, good on you for never having to lower a client. It speaks highy of your ability to choose routes matched to your client's ability. Unfortunately I''ve had to lower quite a few people in my day and have been really glad that it is easy and simple. I always used a Munter when bringing up seconds when guiding. When I've had to be lowered from an autoblock it's never taken less that 10 minutes to get me going, even when executed by allegedly skilled autoblockers in perfect setups. I no longer let anyone belay me with an autoblock.

Kurt Johnson, while the teeth of an ATC Guide (and Jaws) add significantly to the friction available to stop a fall, the B-52 does a cool thing: when it loads up it rocks over and, in addition to the normal "kink-in-the-rope" friction, it pinches the rope between the locking carabiner and the face plate, resulting in more friction that you would suspect. When we test them for relative friction, the B-52 falls almost exactly halfway between Jaws and our Pyramid. Haven't tested it against an ATC Guide yet but I suspect that it would fall closer to the 'Guide than the Pyramid. Because of the pinching action, one of the really cool things you can do with a B-52 is modulate the friction when lowering someone by using your thumb and index finger (of your non-braking hand) to rotate the device forward. In many cases you can easily bring a lowering climber to a stop with this techinque. Shame on us for causing clutter in your anchor setup.

FUN FACT: One of the early B-52 prototypes actually had a ring to hang it off of for autoblocking, exactly like the ATC Guide. You can see a picture of it here:


Since BD didn't decide to honor us by calling their device the ATC-B52 I decided to call this proto stage the B52-Guide. We eliminated the ring because we thought is was about as ugly as a wart on Paris Hilton's face. See what I mean here:



Cheers,
Mal

Dave, I know it can be done but it just hasn't been done with me. Maybe it's because I weight 185 lbs.
Mal

Fair enough, Malcolm.

I think this issue goes more toward pre-planning the anchor & rigging positions than type of device. I've been able to get the Reverso going on a lower with that kind of weight in under a minute. To do this, I've always kept the rigging higher than me and the anchor pro higher than the rigging anticipating how gravity will take the weight.

Having the gear needed & accessible for a pulley is great advice.

I don't think Eli had rigged improperly; he was told the same thing I was, the wear on the Reverso is inconsequential. But, I think the personal decision in using a friction device in the condition it gets in after repeated use, is accountable to the user, regardless of the bad advice -- equipment should be in good order when used for fall protection. But, I think a note to all would be to check any belay device for edges that may damage the rope & replace the device when excessive wear occurs. I'm still using a Reverso & Reversino at this time.

One thing I have done with an overhanging traversing problem, I went with a direct munter instead of a locking configuration so I could take/feed rapidly & more fluidly -- you could essentially use a device non-locking, but the braking direction of the munter allows a more workable situation, (in my opinion, of course). A quick mule & overhand achieves the mainline tie-off.

What I would like to know, how do devices compare in absorbing force by use of friction inherent in a design given a huge leader fall? I much prefer to use the Reversino to belay a leader when using the smaller rope strand sizes. I'm also pro glove-use, it's a smart idea.

The one trouble spot I've had is using larger diameter ropes when belaying a leader, any rope that gets larger than a 10.5 is a bitch. I've gotten real good at feeding out, but older ropes that get "puffy"; I have to use a munter.

Any thoughts on any of this? I think it makes for good discussion.

I'm a longtime B-52 user; in general I like it but I have some misgivings.

I wish it provided more braking force. I suspect most off these contraptions are designed with lighter climbers in mind (I'm 190 lbs ... not exactly a gorilla). With ropes smaller than 10mm I find myself relying on my autoblock backup to give enough friction for, which is not what it's for.

The only device I have that grabs hard enough is my Trango Jaws, which actually overachieves on most single ropes. But it's the one I hand to my wee girlfriend when she has to belay me.

I'm curious to hear from those who have tried both the guide and the b52 how they compare in friction. My partner uses the guide, and I found my b-52 almost dangerously slick on his shiny new 8.2mm half ropes. He found the guide to be too slick also, but he seemed to handle it a bit bettter than I did.

Trango's literature suggests the b52 should actually produce MORE friction on the skinny ropes than it does on my 9.9, but it sure doesn't seem to be the case.

I'll switch to the guide if it's substantially grippier ... but I'll miss the b52's sleek lines and low weight.

FWIW, I don't think autoblocking is overrated, especially when using double ropes or bringing up 2 seconds.

And I am a bit alarmed how fast my (1st generation) b52 is wearing on the rope side. It's not just the anodizing ... grooves started forming in the aluminum after about 10 raps. I'm glad it's still strong after 50% wear, because it will start to look scary soon.

Paul,

The ATC-Guide produces substantially more friction than the B-52, especially in "High Friction Mode", with the jaws on the belay side:

I have owned the atc, reverso, gi gi, and now an atc guide. For belying on 10 mm ropes the atc feeds the best. I bought a reverso because i was belaying lots of followers and i thought it would take less energy with a reverso. Little did i know, it takes tons of energy to pull the rope through in guide mode. Often i was more pumped from belaying than climbing. The only way i found around this (besides using 8.5mm ropes) is to hang my rack or sneakers off of the biner that the rope runs through. This pulls the biner away from the belay device allowing the rope to run though with minimal energy. Maybe a coil spring (like on the old stich plates) would solve the problem, but more likely create others.
Anyway, my new atc guide really sucks for belaying a leader. Too often the rope pulls the device into the biner and locks up the rope. I can pull the rope through the device, but with lots of effort. if the climber needed a quick feed for a despate clip I'd feel more comfortable with an 11.5 mm rope in a gri gri. About 20 -30 times per belay i pull the device away from the biner so the rope will feed smoothly. The plus is that i am positive i can hold big falls with the atc guide. It definitly locks the rope off. This problem is also the same in auto-lock mode. I have been somewhat successful hanging gear from the belay biner to pull it away from the device. This might affect the hands free lock-off feature. Maybe the rack or item hanging off the biner could snag on an edge and prevent the biner from pinching against the device.
Basically none are perfect. The atc feeds wonderfully, but wears quickly and gets a sharp edge. I've gone through 5. The gi gi is the best feeding auto lock i've used, though still not great, and it is more junk to carry. The reverso feeds well for belaying the leader, but is hard to lock off and difficult to pull rope through in guide mode. The atc guide looks like it will last forever, or at least till something better comes out. I think i may go back to the atc and gi gi combination.
Maybe a petzel pear biner would help the rope lock-up problem? I'm using a large trapazoidal shaped petzel.
Is anyone else finding it difficult to feed rope through the atc guide? any ideas?