Hi all,

I'm debating choices of safety in my climbing helmet. I wear my old school Petzl Ecrin Roc suspension style because its paid for, durable, and comfortable. I feel good about the provided protection from impacts from rock fall etc, but worry, especially due to recent tragic events involving a side impact, that a pendulum or ground fall could leave my temporal and occipital regions less protected.

I was considering converting to a foam type helmet such as the petzl meteor because of the weight savings and what I perceive as better side impact protection. Of course, the disadvantage is the investment and durability.

Does anyone have insight/information/experience to persude/dissuade me from either of these choices.

Thanks
Evan

If you want better side impact, buy a bike helmet. All climbing helmets are approved the same so the protection one offers over another isn't going to be a huge factor - ie, little protection for anything other than a huge rock falling directly from above. Just go for the fit, as that's going to be the biggest factor. I have an older Meteor and it fit as well as a salad bowl. I'm certain whatever side impact protection it might have offered would be negated by the helmet slipping off to one side during impact. I replaced it with a BD Half Dome. It's a little better, but not great. IMO, all climbing helmets suck compared to the helmets offered for just about any and all other sports. It's a disappointment. My road bike, mountain bike and ski helmets are awesome, fit very well, and only highlight for me how pitiful and Neanderthal climbing helmets are. IMO, only a lawsuit from an injured party will fix the problem.

I personally don't like the straight-up foam helmets. I think that when I wear one, I like the durability of the plastic; I figure that if I'm going to get hit with a rock, there's a more than likely chance that there's going to be more than one rock involved, and I wanna helmet that's in there for the long(er) haul. I think it's especially true for alpine and ice climbing. Likewise, a bad lead fall often involves multiple impacts with hard surfaces.

When Petzl came out with their first foam helmet, I bought one and wore it for a while (Meteor I think). Then they came out with the plastic/foam helmet which I bought, and I've have been happier with that. Like SAL, I wear a Petzl Elios when I don a helmet. They are platic/foam combos that provide the best of both worlds: weight of foam; durability of plastic. Go to a store and put on just about any plastic/foam helmet and I think you'll be sold.

Good luck.

--Marc

Edit: I just went back and read the OP--and I guess you could just chalk my post up as a dissuasion, based upon my unsubstantiated, partial views.

But, in all seriousness, I think that basing a relatively significant decision on one event--tragic as it might be--is not always the best way to go. My $0.02.

--Marc

Hey Evan. Here's my take. I swithced from a suspension bd half dome to the tracer. I'm all into the lastest and greatest and since the tracer was about the lightest out there I had to have one. Junk. Cheap plastic crap from China comes to mind. The closures suck. The chin strap never stays put. The clips at the "v" in the strap never stay put. I have to readjust constantly. And for the ratchet on the back. Well, when I got hammered on Spearhear last week ( http://www.mountainproject.com/v/colorado__rocky_mountain_re>>>>> ) I put my hat on cause I was shivering my ass off and could not adjust that damn ratchet to accommodate the hat. I finally got it loose two days later at home. Also, I sweat a great deal in the helmet since it isn't suspension.

Conclusion. A good fitting helmet will protect the best. One that is easy to adjust and stayd there will protect best. One that is comfortable probably fits best and you will wear. Don't worry about the money. Or, buy used climbing ropes and get your car brakes replaced at the cheapest place possible.

PS. I witnessed and assisted in rescue a few months ago in Eldo. He fell appox 100 feet and sustained severe injuries. He did hit his head multiple times but did not sustain any severe head injuries. He was wearing an Ecrin Rock.

Every helmet on the market (with the exception of the Ecrin Roc and maybe that beefy Edelrid) is only approved for one large impact. So your Elios, Half Dome, Meteor III, Tracer, etc... should all be retired once they receive one large impact. All of these helmets are also considered a foam style helmet, it is just the degree of plastic surrounding the foam that varies.

The Meteor III and Tracer offer a substantial increase in safety during a leader fall due to the crumple factor (think about how car's crumple during an impact) over traditional style helmets. The penetration resistance is lower (due to less plastic), but for blunt impact they seem to work very well. I personally have had a piece of ice large enough to knock me out hit my Meteor III helmet and while it dented the helmet, the helmet did not break.

The plastic in the Ecrin Roc is a cross-hatched plastic, which means it is designed to have less give and be much more resilient than anything else on the market.

I don't use anything but a Meteor III anymore, but that is because it fits me the best. For me it all boils down to buy the one that fits you best, because you will wear it more often.

I just Googled impact studies on climbing helmets fairly thorougly, and found very little - certainly no formal studies about side impact performance. Lots of opinion, of course, suggesting that foam helmets provide better side protection from banging your head in a fall. Some references say the Ecrin Roc provides "no side protection" which I find a bit of an exaggeration.

The "get a bike helmet" recommendation is probably the truest from the perspective of just protecting your head from any sort of an impact during a fall. God knows I've taken enough mountain biking spills to know for sure - a good bike helmet saves your life. So, any climbing helmet that models that type of destructible thick foam protection and design is probably going to do better than hard shell mountaineering helmets like the Ecrin Roc with regard to hitting your head during a fall.

Ultimately, though, it's the act of actually wearing ANY type of helmet when BOTH leading and following that is the most important thing. I still see way too many leaders helmetless. I shouldn't be seeing any.

The British Mountaineering Council has devoted some energy to the study of helmets. The first two links are a bit outdated, but still interesting. The third is recent and discusses the case for not wearing a helmet.

Heads Up I

Heads Up II

Should I wear a helmet?

Kong makes a helmet (the Scarab) that is certified for both climbing and biking (and canoeing an horse riding).

Finally, the UIAA standard for helmets.

If I'm not mistaken the foam helmets (whether protected by a plastic outer shell or not) are designed to break upon impact to distribute the stress. They are designed to be a one impact helmet.

I'd much rather pay a few bucks for a helmet a few times in my life. I'm, luckily, not hit on the head that often and if it does happen I want the foam AND the plastic shell. Though I'm not sure that the suspension helmets won't do as good a job. Get the helmet you think will do the best job for whatever you are doing. If there is one thing not to skimp on this is it.

Helmets should be about protection...save the durability for something else.

I have to agree with Jed on this. I think most climbing helmets are poorly designed to protect against much more than an impact from above. Many provide slight protection for a side impact, but that assumes that the helmet fits well enough that it won't just slide to the side and expose your temporal region. Most of the foam models don't feel secure enough on my head to make me feel that they would stay put. Only the Ecrin feels like it will stay put (on my head). I haven't seen one that gives any protection to the back of the head which is one of the main threats to lead climbers. I have seen numerous severe head injuries to lead climbers, wearing various types of helmets, that struck the occipital region of their head (lower back area of the skull).

Most helmets seem to sit way up on top of people's heads, and don't extend down the side or back. Think about what a paddling helmet looks like, or a hockey helmet. My guess is that manufacturers don't make these because they feel most climbers wouldn't wear them due to a combination of being hot and dorky-looking. It has been a long road to even get as many climbers wearing helmets as we see today. Climbers seem willing to trade "too hot" or "too heavy" for good protection from a head injury. I wonder if climbers would buy a helmet that really offered full coverage.

Buy a super light foam helmet for cragging.

Keep the durable suspension helmet for alpine.

I have a 7-7/8 sized head. Even worse, its mostly oblong too. I would be a god in a more primitive culture. The point being is that no helmet fits me. I look like a penis with ears.

Should anyone know of an outfit that makes XXL sizes I'd like to know.

I could probably wear your hats, Mike. Hands down, the goofiest helmet I ever owned was a Joe Brown that looked like a motorcycle helmet somewhat. A friend of mine found that it fit him perfectly, so I just let him have it.

Thanks guys for the thoughts. It seems that there is no right answer except " The best helmet is the helmet you actually wear."

Since I don't take sharp end without it, I'm sticking with the Ecrin. It actually find it to be very comfortable and unobtrusive. Maybe I'll get a foamy for cragging when I have some gear funds and don't want something else(like that'll happen).

Cheers and climb safe

I had an Ecrin Roc, but switched to the Elios. I like the Elios much better.

AS I understand it, the science behind the helmets is:
Soft shell helmets or foam helmets take the impact of falling better than a hard shell.
Hard shell helmets are designed to minimize the impact from above.
So, I guess which of the above do you do the most. Get in the way of falling objects or become one yourself?? I use both but feel safest in the mouintains with a hard shell.

JACK

Here is another anecdotal "data point" for what its woth.

While catching the worst fall I have ever taken, my wife was yanked hard into the tree she was anchored to. She hit her temple against the tree while wearing an Ecrin Roc. It was righ at the point where one of the front suspension straps attaches to the inside of the helmet. The impact split her head open somethin' good.

Years later we both still wear Ecrin Rocs and have taken enough whacks on top to remain impressed with them as great helmets no matter what the conditions (hot summers, cold winters w/addl hat on etc).

I doubt there is such a thing as a perfect helmet and its worth at least knowing the strengths and limitations of the one you own.

Out of curiosity, any one out there have any experience with the Grivel Salamander?