Tony B wrote:
That's lot to say and it's a little scrambled, but I'll try to address the main points. It's not hard to see cell death... it's real, it's measurable, and you can get data on it. I'm not saying this or that is my data, I'm saying the peer-reviewed scientific studies and articles suggest what the LD-50 is and absent a good lot of data, I'll accept that over someone's un-quantified anecdote of what I believe to be, more or less, an urban legend. That's for starters. Do I believe you did 100 hits and lived? Yep? But some people were are talking about 10-20X THAT amount: And I also get it when you said Haldol does not belong in the same sentence as LSD. You don't like the idea. Neither do I. But let me run a scenario by you - Discharged Navy seal who, when he can muster the focus to attack, he does. When he can not lay hands on anyone else, he's trying to kill himself. All of this between cycles of "dying" every 6 seconds. The dying every 6 seconds I can deal with... but when he is not dying, he's also thrown his naked self onto the hoods of moving cars and tried to tear them apart, which is how I got called to deal with it. So by the time we get him wrangled, he has sent 3 people to the medics already. He's had a pretty good amount of LSD... 10 hits according to his pals. What would you do? I'd give my vote to put him to sleep. Upon the concurrence of 2 licensed, board certified, practicing psychiatrists, it gets done. Otherwise someone might die. Being restrained and does with anti-psychotics sucks, but I'd choose it over murder or suicide. And that is what happened. Oh, I might understand a lot more than you think... Metaphocially, not only have I done a few tours, I've been in the band. We call it a "teachable moment" if the results are severe and unintended, and don't call that anything when they are not severe. On 10 hits, sure, people usually do OK in the end. I've walked a lot of people out of that... but 10-200x THAT dose? People are talking about "a few thousand hits" here. Personally, I can't really picture it. I've never encountered someone who claims to have done 120 simultaneous (real, as in 100ug) hits regularly until just now. Nor have I ever encountered anyone in MAPS that claims to have known such a person either. So now, for the first time, I hear of someone who claims to have stories about doing that much and the ritual of it... I would LOVE to sit down and have a conversation about that with you ABPT, but of course, you are anon and over the net... So it's all taken with a thumb-print pile of salt.