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Climbing on Acid
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By Daryl Allan
From Sierra Vista, AZ
Apr 24, 2013
Me and my Fetish I guess.. ;)

Wow.. a liter? That's enough to hold Jesse's cat over for like.. two weekends or so.


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By JesseT
From Portland, OR
Apr 24, 2013
25' drop...wheeeeee!

Alas, my cat tells me he doesn't have nearly the tolerance he used to.

True, LSD and Mary J both have enormous therapeutic indeces as well.

With weed it is theoretically impossible to fatally overdose since the part of your brainstem responsible for homeostasis, breathing and heartbeat doesn't contain any cannabinoid receptors.

LSD is theoretically possible to fatally overdose on, but you would have to take a few hundred to a few thousand times an effective dose (and that's a conservative estimate), and it would seriously rock your world if you survived. The aforementioned elephant, while likely actually being killed by the barbituates administered, did go into convulsions from its dose of about 3000 hits. Then again, elephants' metabolism and neurochemistry are too different from ours to draw any conclusions with regards to the relationship between a safe pachyderm dose and a safe human dose.


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By Skat B
From Down Rodeo
Apr 24, 2013
St George

Daryl Allan wrote:
Wow.. a liter? That's enough to hold Jesse's cat over for like.. two weekends or so.


I maybe exaggerating about...I just remember it was a whopping trip. In the meantime, enjoy the tripping cat (and if anyone has the entire video tell me where I can get it).

youtu.be/EJEw3A_QO9o


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By Woodchuck ATC
Apr 24, 2013
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008

I think I need medicating soon,,,,something....


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By Merlin
From Grand Junction
Apr 24, 2013

Clifton Santiago wrote:
Shine on, you crazy diamond, I'm out


Best response on this forum in a long time.


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By Bryan G
From San Jose
Apr 24, 2013
Puffy jackets and Happy Boulders

Skat B wrote:
liter of LSD


made me think of


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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Apr 24, 2013
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.

Skat B wrote:
Basically, like weed, you'd have to cut off all air supply to the lungs & brain and essentially suffocate yourself. Also, I am pretty sure it's about damn impossible to die from LSD overdose.

JesseT wrote:
LSD is theoretically possible to fatally overdose on, but you would have to take a few hundred to a few thousand times an effective dose (and that's a conservative estimate), and it would seriously rock your world if you survived.

LD50 for LSD is 12mg, or about 120 'hits' of 100ug, so maybe 60X what most people do in a trip (2 hits = 200ug). But that's the dose that would be expected to kill 50% of all people who do it... I wouldn't push it. An effective dose is indeed 20ug, but that's not what anybody does, so it's a murky area.
I've personally attended to people who did a lot less and were lucky to have lived. (not killed themselves) Put them to sleep on Haldol and hope that they are sane enough to understand the judge when they get their hearing... and that no latent psychiatric conditions are triggered (IE Dormant Schizophrenia) etc...


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By Woodchuck ATC
Apr 24, 2013
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008

Purple Thunder, 650 mg. was big in 70,s along with 'starter' levels of 250 or 300 yellow sunshine. Guy I know won a wrestling tournament on Purple Thunder one weekend.


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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Apr 24, 2013
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.

Woodchuck ATC wrote:
Purple Thunder, 650 mg. was big in 70,s along with 'starter' levels of 250 or 300 yellow sunshine. Guy I know won a wrestling tournament on Purple Thunder one weekend.

FOR SURE you mean ug not mg. Unless we're talking about blotter the size of a poster-board, or 50+ vials, and someone tossing $5,000-20,000 down for a serious high. Then keeling over.
If the done you describe was right, even one of those Yellow Sunshine's you describe could kill 10-20 people at once.


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By Daryl Allan
From Sierra Vista, AZ
Apr 25, 2013
Me and my Fetish I guess.. ;)

Merlin wrote:
Best response on this forum in a long time.
Agreed.

Incidentally, The Diamond left us on my birthday several years back. I haven't scooped up the 2011 book The Definitive Visual Companion but hope to check it out soon. Should be a good read for any PF fan.


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By Woodchuck ATC
May 10, 2013
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008

micrograms, yes that was my intent to post...milligrams would be daym knockout shit for your head.


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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
May 10, 2013
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.

Kyle Blase wrote:
LSD thumbprints are equivalent to anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand hits. So the estimate of 120 hits for an LD50 seems really low. Check out this thread for some really interesting stories. I guess this has nothing to do with climbing, but then again most of the stuff in these forums doesn't. Thumbprint thread

I didn't estimate that LD-50. It is based on actual science and research. Animals die on that stuff in Eq concentrations, though our seritonergic neurons are not really distributed the same, adjustments are made to the data...

As for this 'coating' of a thumb... do you mean thinly or thickly? I'd estimate a thin thumbprint to be 1/8- 1/4g or 125-250mg. Think about what a finger-dip hit of other substances were 120mG is the target dose ~ 1/8g. Anyway, what you suggest would be on the order of 1000 hits and entering the realm of deadly.
Also about $5000. All in all a cheaper way to go than buying a sport bike, I guess.
I know a lot of people. I don't know anyone who claims to have done this or anyone that would want to... nor allow anyone that they cared about to try it.
Do you know anyone personally that's done this? Where did they get a load of solid LSD like that that someone allowed them to stick their thumb into? Jesus H C... I'd just go buy myself a new car instead...
Despite the fact that the high from this 'thumb print' would likely outlive the new car's use if it didn't kill you first.


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By APBT1976
May 10, 2013
Black Dike 12/25/11

For real as kids we would dissolve hits of acid right in our eyes. The LSD went right to the system and you would be peaking in 15-20 minutes if i remember correctly. We also did the same with liquid acid. This was the 90's...

Also although maybe the quality of the LSD going around in the 90's was not the best i would often take up to ten hits at a time. In the case of the thumb print i am not really shocked. After taking LSD day in an day out the body for the most part needs double to produce the desired affect. So if Monday you take 1 hit of LSD and then Tuesday want to trip again you need 2 hits of acid, if on day three you want to trip again you need 4 hits of acid. On more than one occasion after like 2-3 week day in day out LSD binge i myself ate 1-1.5 whole sheets of acid. Doing it day in and day out like this you could see how someone could take massive doses of the drug in a fairly safe manner. Pretty normal behavior amongst LSD lovers imop..

Yes we were wild kids but boy did we have a great great time!!


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By willeslinger
From Golden, Colorado
May 10, 2013
I was pretty bummed when they didn't greenlight my "Bourne Identity" style reboot of The Eiger Sanction. This was from the rough draft's first act.

If top-roping with an understanding baby-sitter (you owe the same to them on a subsequent occasion, and they shouldn't lead with your belay to set up said TR, obviously, don't be a dumb ass) is whoa, it's more fun than a good Dead cover band while similarly intoxicated, that's for damn sure


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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
May 11, 2013
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.

APBT1976 wrote:
After taking LSD day in an day out the body for the most part needs double to produce the desired affect. So if Monday you take 1 hit of LSD and then Tuesday want to trip again you need 2 hits of acid, if on day three you want to trip again you need 4 hits of acid. On more than one occasion after like 2-3 week day in day out LSD binge i myself ate 1-1.5 whole sheets of acid. Doing it day in and day out like this you could see how someone could take massive doses of the drug in a fairly safe manner.

Yes and no... getting 'tripped out' and requiring more and more to reach a psychedelic high doesn't extend the limits of toxicity as much as you might think. I'd love to know the actual amounts that people have survived without damage. 10 hits, sure... I know a lot of people, but 100+!?!? I'm skeptical. I have had the opportunity to work with people who acutely overdose to get them back on this here planet, and their amounts are way way way below that. Much above that and we're talking haldol.


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By APBT1976
May 11, 2013
Black Dike 12/25/11

Tony B wrote:
Yes and no... getting 'tripped out' and requiring more and more to reach a psychedelic high doesn't extend the limits of toxicity as much as you might think. I'd love to know the actual amounts that people have survived without damage. 10 hits, sure... I know a lot of people, but 100+!?!? I'm skeptical. I have had the opportunity to work with people who acutely overdose to get them back on this here planet, and their amounts are way way way below that. Much above that and we're talking haldol.


I guess it depends what you call damage. Loss of a varying degree of memory, maybe lasting elevated anxiety levels and or some sort of mood disorders maybe. Perma trips, wacked out thoughts and seeing crazy colors maybe in the rare case but i would say that would go for anyone who rolls the dice with even 1 hit of LSD.

I am not trying to be a jerk but i am skeptical to take the word of anyone whom tests any drug on someone or something "another creature" other than them self and then says with any amount of conviction one way or the other that they feel they understand the effects of said drug. How about you take the drug for said amount of time a said doses then maybe i take for face value to some degree what you have to say. Imop i understand we need to do this but i also feel it is complete bullshit when said Dr. sits in front of said patient and says Lipator for cholesterol instead of demanding daily exercise and diet. Or Zanax or Kolonopin for anxiety when in many cases said persons anxiety can simply be managed with proper diet, hydration, sleep and exercise.

I will attest though i am a big hater of the pharmacuetical industry for the most part. I do not feel alone in that regard as i think most are in some way shape or form put off by the medical feild pushing drugs as solutions. Still though the majority will take the quick fix as making real change is just way to hard when people have to jam pack life just to survive. Well at least they think they have to.

Back to LSD, clearly the stuff can be potent in varying degrees and dangerous. However i stand my ground that on more than one occasion i have ingested 75-100 hits of LSD at one time give or take. I think i am ok for the most part? At least grandma, mom, employers and friends and family seem to think so. I clearly have had a few friends whom clearly melted their brains. In those cases though is was mostly due to MDMA abuse and the end result was much that of someone whom smoked a bit too much angle dust. Just a sad situation really resulting in a person with a brain melted to the point the person can barely maintain focus long enough to finish a sentence and clearly struggles to stay in the present.


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By APBT1976
May 11, 2013
Black Dike 12/25/11

Ow yeah Haldol is a ugly word and does not belong in the same conversation as LSD.

Haldol is ugly ugly shit imop...


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By Buff Johnson
May 11, 2013
smiley face

Take LD50 with a grain of salt.


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By Clifton Santiago
May 11, 2013

APBT1976 wrote:
However i stand my ground that on more than one occasion i have ingested 75-100 hits of LSD at one time give or take. I think i am ok for the most part? At least grandma, mom, employers and friends and family seem to think so. I clearly have had a few friends whom clearly melted their brains. In those cases though is was mostly due to MDMA abuse and the end result was much that of someone whom smoked a bit too much angle dust. Just a sad situation really resulting in a person with a brain melted to the point the person can barely maintain focus long enough to finish a sentence and clearly struggles to stay in the present.

This paragraph suggests otherwise. C'mon bro, no capitalized "I", "angle" dust?

Face it holmes, you're fried.


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By burlap submariner
May 11, 2013

all spun out in the gunks, all the people around, soloing, bouldering smoking, talking with folks. Such a beautiful experience. Did beginners on whitehorse solo on mushrooms. Just bouldering is amazing on lysergic. Prostrate to an altered state.


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By burlap submariner
May 11, 2013

"angle dust" smoking the residue from stacked angles on aid routes. Gets you FUCKED UP.


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By burlap submariner
May 11, 2013

Tony, im not sure you grasp the gravity of what happens while on tour.....people get puddled...frequently. And they do come back, safe and sound. More times than not they come back the wiser.


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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
May 12, 2013
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.

APBT1976 wrote:
I guess it depends what you call damage. Loss of a varying degree of memory, maybe lasting elevated anxiety levels and or some sort of mood disorders maybe. Perma trips, wacked out thoughts and seeing crazy colors maybe in the rare case but i would say that would go for anyone who rolls the dice with even 1 hit of LSD. I am not trying to be a jerk but i am skeptical to take the word of anyone whom tests any drug on someone or something "another creature" other than them self and then says with any amount of conviction one way or the other that they feel they understand the effects of said drug. ... Back to LSD, clearly the stuff can be potent in varying degrees and dangerous. However i stand my ground that on more than one occasion i have ingested 75-100 hits of LSD at one time give or take. I think i am ok for the most part? At least grandma, mom, employers and friends and family seem to think so. I clearly have had a few friends whom clearly melted their brains. In those cases though is was mostly due to MDMA abuse and the end result was much that of someone whom smoked a bit too much angle dust. Just a sad situation really resulting in a person with a brain melted to the point the person can barely maintain focus long enough to finish a sentence and clearly struggles to stay in the present.

That's lot to say and it's a little scrambled, but I'll try to address the main points. It's not hard to see cell death... it's real, it's measurable, and you can get data on it. I'm not saying this or that is my data, I'm saying the peer-reviewed scientific studies and articles suggest what the LD-50 is and absent a good lot of data, I'll accept that over someone's un-quantified anecdote of what I believe to be, more or less, an urban legend. That's for starters.
Do I believe you did 100 hits and lived? Yep? But some people were are talking about 10-20X THAT amount:
Kyle Blase wrote:
LSD thumbprints are equivalent to anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand hits.


And I also get it when you said Haldol does not belong in the same sentence as LSD. You don't like the idea. Neither do I. But let me run a scenario by you - Discharged Navy seal who, when he can muster the focus to attack, he does. When he can not lay hands on anyone else, he's trying to kill himself. All of this between cycles of "dying" every 6 seconds. The dying every 6 seconds I can deal with... but when he is not dying, he's also thrown his naked self onto the hoods of moving cars and tried to tear them apart, which is how I got called to deal with it. So by the time we get him wrangled, he has sent 3 people to the medics already. He's had a pretty good amount of LSD... 10 hits according to his pals. What would you do?

I'd give my vote to put him to sleep. Upon the concurrence of 2 licensed, board certified, practicing psychiatrists, it gets done. Otherwise someone might die. Being restrained and does with anti-psychotics sucks, but I'd choose it over murder or suicide. And that is what happened.

burlap submariner wrote:
Tony, im not sure you grasp the gravity of what happens while on tour.....people get puddled...frequently. And they do come back, safe and sound. More times than not they come back the wiser.

Oh, I might understand a lot more than you think... Metaphocially, not only have I done a few tours, I've been in the band. We call it a "teachable moment" if the results are severe and unintended, and don't call that anything when they are not severe. On 10 hits, sure, people usually do OK in the end. I've walked a lot of people out of that... but 10-200x THAT dose? People are talking about "a few thousand hits" here. Personally, I can't really picture it. I've never encountered someone who claims to have done 120 simultaneous (real, as in 100ug) hits regularly until just now. Nor have I ever encountered anyone in MAPS that claims to have known such a person either.

So now, for the first time, I hear of someone who claims to have stories about doing that much and the ritual of it... I would LOVE to sit down and have a conversation about that with you ABPT, but of course, you are anon and over the net... So it's all taken with a thumb-print pile of salt.


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By APBT1976
May 12, 2013
Black Dike 12/25/11

Tony B wrote:
That's lot to say and it's a little scrambled, but I'll try to address the main points. It's not hard to see cell death... it's real, it's measurable, and you can get data on it. I'm not saying this or that is my data, I'm saying the peer-reviewed scientific studies and articles suggest what the LD-50 is and absent a good lot of data, I'll accept that over someone's un-quantified anecdote of what I believe to be, more or less, an urban legend. That's for starters. Do I believe you did 100 hits and lived? Yep? But some people were are talking about 10-20X THAT amount: And I also get it when you said Haldol does not belong in the same sentence as LSD. You don't like the idea. Neither do I. But let me run a scenario by you - Discharged Navy seal who, when he can muster the focus to attack, he does. When he can not lay hands on anyone else, he's trying to kill himself. All of this between cycles of "dying" every 6 seconds. The dying every 6 seconds I can deal with... but when he is not dying, he's also thrown his naked self onto the hoods of moving cars and tried to tear them apart, which is how I got called to deal with it. So by the time we get him wrangled, he has sent 3 people to the medics already. He's had a pretty good amount of LSD... 10 hits according to his pals. What would you do? I'd give my vote to put him to sleep. Upon the concurrence of 2 licensed, board certified, practicing psychiatrists, it gets done. Otherwise someone might die. Being restrained and does with anti-psychotics sucks, but I'd choose it over murder or suicide. And that is what happened. Oh, I might understand a lot more than you think... Metaphocially, not only have I done a few tours, I've been in the band. We call it a "teachable moment" if the results are severe and unintended, and don't call that anything when they are not severe. On 10 hits, sure, people usually do OK in the end. I've walked a lot of people out of that... but 10-200x THAT dose? People are talking about "a few thousand hits" here. Personally, I can't really picture it. I've never encountered someone who claims to have done 120 simultaneous (real, as in 100ug) hits regularly until just now. Nor have I ever encountered anyone in MAPS that claims to have known such a person either. So now, for the first time, I hear of someone who claims to have stories about doing that much and the ritual of it... I would LOVE to sit down and have a conversation about that with you ABPT, but of course, you are anon and over the net... So it's all taken with a thumb-print pile of salt.


If i am ever in or around Boulder maybe i will look you up. Sure at some point i will be or at least passing through.

I get your point with Haldol and i think you get mine.

Best,


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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
May 12, 2013
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.

APBT1976 wrote:
If i am ever in or around Boulder maybe i will look you up. Sure at some point i will be or at least passing through.

Please do, I'd be interested in hearing more details. I'm not hard to find around here...


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