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Climbing Mag doesn't pay up ?
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By Brad Caldwell
From Deep in the Jocassee Gorges
Dec 27, 2012
And that's why I self publish instead of chasing a hollow dream, John!

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By Dougald MacDonald
Dec 27, 2012
I'm surprised and disappointed to see John's repeated posts on this topic because I contacted him less than half an hour after his original post, on behalf of Climbing. Although I no longer work full-time for the magazine, I do help out with contributor relations with the accounting department, and I explained to John that the company was closed for the holiday week, but that I would contact accounting first thing on Monday morning to plead his case. He replied that this sounded reasonable to him, and so I was surprised to see him claiming no one had responded. I do understand the frustration. I can assure you that it's a source of great frustration and anxiety to the editors who work there, as well, because they understand how increidbly important the contributors are. Indeed, many of them are close friends. They wish they could change the situation, but it's out of their hands. It is true that the magazine's payments have been very slow, but I can say this: Everyone does get paid. Meanwhile, I will be following up on John's behalf on Monday.

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By NC Rock Climber
From The Oven, AKA Phoenix
Dec 27, 2012
tanuki
Dougald MacDonald wrote:
I'm surprised and disappointed to see John's repeated posts on this topic because I contacted him less than half an hour after his original post, on behalf of Climbing. Although I no longer work full-time for the magazine, I do help out with contributor relations with the accounting department, and I explained to John that the company was closed for the holiday week, but that I would contact accounting first thing on Monday morning to plead his case. He replied that this sounded reasonable to him, and so I was surprised to see him claiming no one had responded. I do understand the frustration. I can assure you that it's a source of great frustration and anxiety to the editors who work there, as well, because they understand how increidbly important the contributors are. Indeed, many of them are close friends. They wish they could change the situation, but it's out of their hands. It is true that the magazine's payments have been very slow, but I can say this: Everyone does get paid. Meanwhile, I will be following up on John's behalf on Monday.


For you to come on here and say that you are disappointed to see John posting on this issue after you contacted him is, at best, complete bullshit. Until John gets paid, he has every right to continue to post on this thread. In fact, even after he gets paid, he is well within the boundaries of ethical behavior to out climbing magazine for its shady payment practices. You told him you would look into it after 5 months. I am going to bet he has heard that before. I am not saying that you are being disingenuous, but you admit that AP is out of your control. Why should he believe you and expect that he will get paid now. Why should he stop talking about this. Until he gets paid, Climbing Magazine is screwing him, not the other way around.

What you should be disappointed in is the fact that the editors and staff at Climbing Magazine continue to enter into agreements with contributors when they know that the payment terms will not be met. I get that it is a tough spot for the editors and you to be in; AP is out of your control and you still have to solicit content. However, if you don't let folks like John know up front that you will pay in "net whenever," you are 100% complicit in the fraud that this organization is committing and part of the problem.

Full disclosure - I don't know John and have never worked with Climbing. I do own a business and see shady business practices like this regularly.

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By Johnkelley
Dec 27, 2012
I had a problem with Climbing Mag a few years ago too. I had posted a trip report and a few photos on the Cascade Climbers forum about a new route we had done on University Peak. A few days later Dougal MacDonald sent me an email wanting to know if it was ok for him to put my stuff on Climbing Mags website. Problem was it was already there before I was asked. It turned a little heated with MacDonald arguing that he could put it on there without my permission if he felt like it. He took it down soon after. I'm still a little pissed about it. Climbing Magazine sucks.

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By Cultivating Mass
Dec 27, 2012
Leading on the only "fair means" rack.
Holy Jeezus Kryste on a popsicle stick, some sore behinds around here!

So the Doog emails you within 30 min and you keep posting without mentioning?

I'm gonna call that Lame Sauce, or What's Weak, This Week.

For the record I think the mag has gone straight down the shitter since the Urban Wackjob purchase, it reads like an in-flight magazine these days, and I've read all the way back to the single digit issue number days, when the writing was personal and the lycra eye-stabbing.

Maybe someday someone with an interest in real quality and the power to make decisions that will acheive that at some point. In the meantime, the last half dozen pages will need to explain how to tie a figure 8 every month, because only the very bored or completely uninformed will be tuning in.

For all Rock and Ice's warts, they put out a vastly better product these days, visually, and more importantly, content-wise.

That's my view from atop the world's smallest soapbox.

Give a working man (Doogie Mack) a chance to make good on his word before you start slinging used tampons, crampons, or otherwise in his direction, O pissed off Artist.

How much do they owe you in the first place? Fifty bucks?

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By Jonas Salk
Dec 28, 2012

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By FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Dec 28, 2012
>

Dr. Salk,

On behalf of mankind, thank you for your vaccine. The soundtrack video was good, too.

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By nbrown
From western NC
Dec 28, 2012
Top of Shortoff with the Bonsai
john strand wrote:
There was short story about me in the August 2012 issue, with a couple of photos. Still have not been paid for the photo use. Anybody else have this problem ?? It's not a bit sum, but over 4 months seems a bit much


Sure have!

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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Dec 28, 2012
Stoked...
WHERE THE HELLS MY MONEY!!!!!

what a great song... now pay the man.

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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Dec 28, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.
Smarty Ports/Shants wrote:
How much do they owe you in the first place? Fifty bucks?


Playing with my money is like playing with my emotions.
Playing with my money is like playing with my emotions.

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By The Stoned Master
Administrator
From Pennsylvania
Dec 28, 2012
Day Lily.
Great question: how much does a photo cost from you guys? How much for multiple photos, say a spread?

What if you're the climber (but not the photographer)? Do you get paid?

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By Glenn Schuler
From Monument, Co.
Dec 28, 2012
A grey fox skull wedged in a crack 100' up on a FA I was working on - don't see that every day...
The Stoned Master wrote:
Great question: how much does a photo cost from you guys? How much for multiple photos, say a spread? What if you're the climber (but not the photographer)? Do you get paid?


Their website probably has all that info, at least it used to.

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By Tomtomtomtom
Dec 28, 2012
The original issue of this thread aside, how does the mag justify having a bad administration? From what I've read here its obvious that this isn't a temporary problem. If you know the payments are lagging and you're losing contributors and reputation due to the fact, how come you're not taking action? If its internal, someone needs to be sacked (or hired), if its external, you need a new subcontractor for the finances. Going on like this is unprofessional and not a valid excuse for consistently paying too late.
The only possible explanations are
a) The mag isn't professional. (well, its actually a possibility in the climbing industry)
b) Shenanigans.

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By Buff Johnson
Dec 28, 2012
smiley face
Obviously the magazine doesn't run the money.

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By TheBirdman
From Eldorado Springs, Colorado
Dec 28, 2012
Can you say class action?

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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Dec 28, 2012
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Peak.
NC Rock Climber wrote:
For you to come on here and say that you are disappointed to see John posting on this issue after you contacted him is, at best, complete bullshit. Until John gets paid, he has every right to continue to post on this thread...


Even through New Years while the office is still closed? Kind of barking at the front door when the Jehovah's Witness people are already gone.

TheBirdman wrote:
Can you say class action?


I hear Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer is available. What about Harvey Birdman, esq? You know him, right?

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By blakeherrington
Dec 28, 2012
You're entitled to your own opinions (X amount of time being too long of a wait for you to handle) but you are not entitled to your own facts, so here are a few to clarify:

-----

The publisher of climbing, which handles the accounting, handles the payments for all the magazines they own. Climbing is owned by a publisher, not the other way around, and can't just "fire someone."

I've contributed numerous pieces over the years and always gotten paid, though always after a few months or more. If you are living hand-to-mouth and need the money within a few months, don't bother working with Climbing.

I have never once signed a contract that indicated I would be paid within a set number of days or any faster than I have been. Of the photographers that I have worked with, none has received a 30 or 60-day guarantee either. And the staff has always been honest and upfront about the delays in having contributors paid.

When payment has come my way, I've been contacted by employees several months after the contribution, as a friendly courtesy to remind me that I had a check in the mail and to thank me for the work.

-----------


Do you actually have a signed contract that promised payment within a set amount of time?

If some contract was not fulfilled, it would make you much more credible to post that here. As it is, the major source of unprofessionalism on display are your repeated diatribes swearing about a problem best handled privately, and your false claims that you had no response when in fact the editor-in-chief (emeritus) emailed you within 30 minutes of your initial post.

As a general of thumb, if you're trying to get money from someone, your odds of success won't improve by calling them "fuckers".

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By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Dec 28, 2012
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV
I think you should all go taco on them. But probably should wait until after the holiday season. No one likes getting tacoed while they're with their families.

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By leave a trace
Dec 28, 2012
Smarty Ports/Shants wrote:
Holy Jeezus Kryste on a popsicle stick, I'm gonna call that Lame Sauce, or What's Weak, This Week. How much do they owe you in the first place? Fifty bucks?


Just do what Willis would do and ask your mom for a bigger allowance, and let it go.

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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Dec 28, 2012
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Peak.
Jon Zucco wrote:
No one likes getting tacoed while they're with their families.


No one on the Taco has any family. That would imply someone slept with them and children resulted from the profane act.

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By john strand
From southern colo
Dec 28, 2012
blake- the issue is that it hasn't been handled privately.. during several communicationc. it's more like " next month" then "next month"

I asked if anyone else has had this problem and i got my answer.. up to 12 months- doesn't that seem a bit much ?

Why would the thread be deleted ? bad publicity ?

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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Dec 28, 2012
Stoked...
Fool me once shame on you... fool me twice shame on me?

Sounds like it fits pretty well... moral of the story, if your concerned about being paid, don't do any work for them unless your pay period is predefined, in writing, in a contract. Must suck to be trying live off writing for Climbing rags.. glad I choose not to pursue that "career."

If it did get past 6 months, and you didn't give a hoot about writing again I'd file a suit in small claims court.

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By Tomtomtomtom
Dec 28, 2012
blakeherrington wrote:
... some very valid points...

You can always give the publishing company some feedback that if their accounting tempo doesn't change, the magazine, their investment, will start losing ground.
Lots of dirtbag climbers that won't bother with this mag according to your dogma. Not that I'm defending the OP, he's definately out of line.

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By FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Dec 28, 2012
There's absolutely no reason for payment to take months. "That's the way it is" and "it's accounting, not the magazine" are poor excuses for tardy payments. It's a lousy way to treat your contributors.

Even though there could be repercussions for the OP, and some people disagree, taking it public is one way of dealing with it. It may not produce the payment, but it generates bad PR for the mag. One could argue it generates bad PR for the OP, too, but he's at wit's end.

Imagine if the employees at Climbing were paid the same way. Every few months, but they don't know when.

Or if a subscriber asked, "Can I get your magazine now, and pay you in a few months?" They wouldn't accept that, but that's how they're treating others.

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By Cultivating Mass
Dec 29, 2012
Leading on the only "fair means" rack.
I laid a prizewinning deuce yesterday and actually learned something from reading one of those lame duck instruction spreads at the end while losing ten pounds.

So I'm eating a few words. Is that gross?

My bet is this gets handled and done with within a few days and remains a problem thenceforth. Corporate BS. Expect it, believe it, thrive in spite of it.

I hear Cosmo's paying good quick money for sob stories like this one, BTW-mo' money, mo' money, mo' money!

PS Jake, you're my hero, Big Perm.

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