Climbing in post-Soviet Georgia . . .

So, I've been to the local outdoor crags and learned the various techniques Georgians use to stay 'safe' with the resources they have at their disposal. Today though, I found the 15-meter indoor climbing wall and experienced a new level of fear while climbing. The guy that seems to run the place pointed at the largely overhung wall and says (russian being our mutual language) "now you can climb on this wall. you know how to lead?" of course. So here I climb up this wall, easy route but not the cracks I'm used to plus a significant roof section, and the rope is tied to me, running down through three draws then straight into this guys' hands. No ATC, no gri-gri, no figure-8, just his hands. Faced with the horizontal overhang and juggey holds, knowing he had no belay device; I held tight, yelled 'hold' and lowered off. Just curious how other climbers would respond to this situation. I intend to gift this climbing wall with my extra belay device and when I leave, leave my draws with them. They need 'em, only one/2 overhanging routes has draws on it, sometimes they switch them over to the harder route.

That's some skandy shit right there. I'm sure they would appreciate your generosity. For TR they should rap the top twice and they could technically still belay with their hands.

Thats pretty scary! I would try to send them some steel draws from home because who knows how long they will use grooved out aluminum. Did he have a harness on while using a hip belay? Harnesses could be another "need" for them!

Yo Brandon! If you can get their address / shipping info I'd be willing to send them a couple of my surplus ATCs. Happy to hear you survived.

Brandon Gottung wrote:So here I climb up this wall, easy route but not the cracks I'm used to plus a significant roof section, and the rope is tied to me, running down through three draws then straight into this guys' hands. No ATC, no gri-gri, no figure-8, just his hands. Just curious how other climbers would respond to this situation.

Seriously? You started leading something well aware your "belayer" had no harness or belay device?

Id say you are just as inept as the guy running the gym.

dorseyec wrote: Seriously? You started leading something well aware your "belayer" had no harness or belay device? Id say you are just as inept as the guy running the gym.

This sort of thing happens when you leave the US. Not using a belay device or harness isn't that big of a deal with a hip belay, and i'd prefer a hip belay to a standard belay with some of the harnesses i've seen used in old Soviet bloc countries. There isn't enough information in the original post to know what is actually happening, but certainly not enough to warrant your bit of nastiness.

How did I know someone would come on to talk about the hip belay... 1) its not 1965 2) he said he was "just using his hands" which to me does not equal a hip belay. If you bothered to read his post you would have seen that there was enough information to figure it out as he said he was "just using his hands"...

What bit of nastiness? I am just pointing out the obvious... You dont believe he is inept by waiting until he is halfway up the wall to figure out how his belayer is actually belaying him?

These countries are so poor that they can afford to build a climbing wall but cant afford the $10 for a swami belt and old ATC?

Yeah, the nastiness is not deserved. The situation is more complicated but I summed in up nicely and knew what the belay was. Plus I saw a similar belay previously, and if I felt 100% confident, I would have continued climbing. I got seriously scared though, hence the post. Any climber, wanting to climb and train would do the similar.

Nathan - that's mighty generous of you. I'll look into a mailing address.

dorseyec - please quit your additions and move on. You don't understand the situation here at all. This gym is just a couple of walls, most holds are wooden, it has no heat, the ropes are soft squishy (still fine for toprope), and the climbers are young, strong, well-trained, friendly. It's a good scene, just a sketchy lead belay. I appreciate everybody else's additions. We'll get Nathans ATC's here and I'll teach the hip belay.

dorseyec wrote:How did I know someone would come on to talk about the hip belay... 1) its not 1965 2) he said he was "just using his hands" which to me equals not a hip belay. If you bothered to read his post you would have seen that there was enough information to figure it out as he said he was "just using his hands"... not his body. What bit of nastiness? I am just pointing out the obvious... if you wait til you are halfway up the wall to figure out how you are being belayed then you are in fact inept. Dont be so sensitive. These countries are so poor that they can afford to build a climbing wall but cant afford the $10 for a swami belt and old ATC?

I don't think you understand what it is like in many places outside of the US. There is not your local REI, there is not a store that sells webbing. There aren't a bunch of used ATCs floating around. Things cost more and the people have less money. Get of your judgmental horse.

Brandon Gottung wrote:We'll get Nathans ATC's here and I'll teach the hip belay.

So obviously he was lead belaying you using just his bare hands.... You had to have seen this before you left the ground, right? It is your job as a climber to check the belayer before you leave the ground, something you obviously did not do. Sorry if you feel I am being a jerk but explain to me how this is not being inept?

I am sure everyone else will try to argue with me just for the sake of arguing though....

I am soooo judgemental to suggest he is inept for letting someone lead belay him with his bare hands! hahahah geeeze :) I should really get off my high horse...

Brandon Gottung wrote:Any climber, wanting to climb and train would do the similar.

And no, I do not know any climbers who would let someone lead belay them using only their bare hands. That is just crazy and I hope you are not serious and find some proper instruction.

Killis Howard wrote:Looks like it's time to play a thrilling round of Ignore The Troll...

But ask yourself first, where's the fun in that?

Killis, still looking forward to your reply in the weather thread :)

If youre going to give me shit for changing my name lets at least hear yours! Or post some pics of yourself climbing... or are you just going to continue to be an anonymous shit talker? Come on dude be a man!

At least evan uses his real name and isn't afraid to ask dumb questions.

Evan Sanders wrote: But ask yourself first, where's the fun in that?

This way he can use it as a guise to not have to answer my question... Cause hes "ignoring me".

dorseyec wrote:If youre going to give me shit for changing my name lets at least hear yours!

You only wish your first name was Killis.

dorseyec wrote:At least evan uses his real name and isn't afraid to ask dumb questions.

You know it's entertaining. Why else would you be on a social forum? (Not dumb by the way, just bored a lot).

It is a pretty sweet fake name.

And yes, asking if its okay to use torn webbing is a dumb question, no way around that one. But it is slightly less dumb than letting someone lead belay you with their bare hands...

Forget a squeeze check, you started climbing without checking if HE HAD A BELAY DEVICE.

Jesus H dude. Darwin award.

dorseyec wrote:It is a pretty sweet fake name. And yes, asking if its okay to use torn webbing is a dumb question, no way around that one. But it is slightly less dumb than letting someone lead belay you with their bare hands...

I wasn't...nah it's not worth correcting you.

I have no dog in this fight (thread?) however, so until we meet again in another thread...

James Otey wrote:Forget a squeeze check, you started climbing without checking if HE HAD A BELAY DEVICE. Jesus H dude. Darwin award.

exactly... But dude the hip belay is totally bomber! Unfortunately he wasn't even doing that. Just bare hands! Ive heard russians have an iron fist but I dont think thats what they meant.

Evan Sanders wrote:there is now a tear in it about a quarter of the way through. So my question is, is it still okay as just an anchor piece, where it (probably) won't take a dynamic load, or is a 1/4 of the way torn through webbing unsafe for an anchor?

And Evan, asking if its okay to climb on a cam with torn webbing sounds EXACTLY what you were asking. Am I missing something?

Something else worth adding - I've been climbing at a local crag - a decent 30 m cliff with a band of choss half way up for a couple weeks - and I NEVER saw a belay device only the two I brought with me here. They generally have pipes installed on the ground and have the rope wrapped around that as a belay device. Of course I'm not going to get judgmental, curse lack of gear and resources here, and quit climbing. I just go about everything here, climbing well within my abilities, knowing that the safety systems isn't as safe as my trusty cams in sandstone splitters. I also don't intend to make folks feel ashamed for there lack of proper gear. As David said, things cost more and people have less money.

Brandon Gottung wrote:Something else worth adding - I've been climbing at a local crag - a decent 30 m cliff with a band of choss half way up for a couple weeks - and I NEVER saw a belay device only the two I brought with me here. They generally have pipes installed on the ground and have the rope wrapped around that as a belay device. Of course I'm not going to get judgmental, curse lack of gear and resources here, and quit climbing. I just go about everything here, climbing well within my abilities, knowing that the safety systems isn't as safe as my trusty cams in sandstone splitters. I also don't intend to make folks feel ashamed for there lack of proper gear. As David said, things cost more and people have less money.

Thats fine but you still need to check your belayer before you get off the ground... and you should have noticed he was planning on just catching the rope with his bare hands. Id prefer not to climb than let someone lead belay me in that manner, but you might be going for the darwin award so go for it!

This has to be a troll...

dorseyec wrote: Am I missing something?

Short answer-Yes.

Longer answer-The entire rest of the thread and the explanation behind it.

See, now you made me go back on my "I'm not going to reply again in this thread" comment. Now I'm a liar.

dorseyec wrote:Long answer?

Edited my last post as you replied apparently.