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climbing ban at ramapo powerlines
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By jon crefeld
Apr 18, 2012

Thanks for your patience everyone. If you've checked the Facebook page, you've already seen that things continue to look positive for legal access in area. It's a fine testament to a passionate group of people.


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By boulderbum
From NY
May 9, 2012

slomopho wrote:
Glad someone is trying to get legal access to climbing areas in NNJ area. Boulderbum you arent looking hard enough. Many hard problems in NNJ.



jerseys a joke dude. Any self-respecting unfortunate who found himself there would do well to save his energy for the local gym, then drive to PA or NY to climb real rock. Whats the killer jersey spot? Sourlands? lol


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By boulderbum
From NY
May 31, 2012

Time to shed some real light on this situation, as I have been hearing some random talk on the issue in the local gyms and shit. Talks with the PIPC are beyond pointless. Climbing is prohibited on all their land, which is where 95% of the eastern hudson valley's bouldering is. As it stands, nobody I know has ever been hassled for climbing. In large part because of the secluded locations, but the fact PIPC have no clue what crashpads are obviously works in our favor as well.

If it aint broke, dont fix it. Torne/ramapo/powerlinezthhhhh is literally the worst place to boulder in the entire area. Brittle, rotten, and crumbly mounds in an area whose rattlesnake population thrives at scary levels. Absolutely nobody on earth should be climbing there. Theres nothing hard or worth remembering anyway.

What really bothers me is the fact a gumby out of stater is threatening access to all the bouldering in 2 counties. Wasnt there another jersey guy that famously fucked up access for everyone? Stick to your own states choss. Seriously.


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By Erboutitman
From farmingdale ny
Jun 2, 2012

thats what i've been thinking the entire time. acting like your doing a service to the world doesn't actually make it one. we can all climb there as long as you don't advertise it like the dumb beer bouldering people and and the jersey folks that like to lay in the dirt while they climb.


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By jon crefeld
Jun 7, 2012

Again, nice trolling guys, but remember that the PIPC has expressed an intent to open the Powerlinez to climbing. Handling that responsibly is the path to opening more PIPC land for climbers. I think we can agree that would be a very good thing.


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By boulderbum
From NY
Jun 13, 2012

Unreal. Nobody wants you pursuing this. The powerlinez is way below choss, its brittle garbage. You werent the first person to climb there, and have no clue how to find a decent line, or even rate one. Your guide contains shit that first time climbers wouldnt even bother with. Sorry to be so brutal but you are misssing the point completely. Your shitty guide brought a lot of attention to a subpar climbing area, and access could be strained throughout the hudson valley as a result. NOBODY WANTS these areas turned into carriage road. They are perfect as it stands, we never get harrassed and the crags are never crowded. Spots reveal themselves through exploring and word of mouth. Stop trying already, its sickening. Youre a toproper who boulders roughly v2 and now decides hes the al gore of access funds? Why dont you spend your time exploring your own shitty little state, and trying to clear your own access problems up? What a self indulgent little bowl of fruit you are. Oh and a word of advice? Boulder outdoors a bit before you put a guide together. I mean..come on man. This whole situations pathetic


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By jon crefeld
Jun 14, 2012

Boulderbum, Boulderbum, Boulderbum. This is pathetic. It's pathetic because we both love the same thing and have the same goal. Now I thought being called 'a self indulgent little bowl of fruit' was a little hilarious, but coming from someone who doesn't even use their name here - it's a little pathetic.

Also pathetic: Posting in all caps 'NOBODY WANTS', like you know what everybody wants. You sneak on to property and don't use your real name, how can you know what everybody wants?

Now self-indulgent man of fruit that I am, I'd love to be bouldering, putting up FAs and proving what I can climb right now, but I've put my name on things and I'll follow through on that and listen to climbers, land managers, access fund people, environmentalists, snake experts, Indian artifact experts, politicians and even yourself.

I understand where you're coming from. My buds are upset about the closure too, and I hear it from them. And I tell them that a lot of good people want to see access happen. And a lot of good people are studying the parking and trail plans, biology, liability, history and community relations and on and on. It ain't glamorous, it ain't V9, and it's certainly not pathetic. It's super fortunate that we have them on our team.

You probably don't see it that way, because you don't see the need for those people. But, this freedom thing we share ... well, we share it. And, I'll tell you what's V9: Progress and winning trust. Just not easy. And just like you don't know whether to trust me, they don't know whether they can trust climbers.

We're all nervous about which way this might go. I can tell you it is moving in the right direction, thanks to everyone participating in the solution. Keep your sense of humor and we'll keep you posted. If you want more info, just ask. If we're not on the same team, we ought to be.


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By enviroman42
Jun 14, 2012

Hi All... I have been following the Powerlines climbing for a few months now and wanted to add a couple of my thoughts to this discussion. First, I'm not a climber, so maybe I don't belong here at all. But, that said, I understand the desire to climb in the area and recognize the rights of climbers to use the park - it is a public resource after all.

That said, I am saddened by the seeming lack of regard for nature that comes across in many of these posts. First, the rattlesnake issue... they are a threatened species in the State. Second, the Native American site issue... As was mentioned before, there are many in the area of the powerlines.

It would seem to me that folks who want to be outside, enjoying nature in the way that you all do would care about these issues. Climbing and care for the natural and cultural resources of the area where you climb should not be mutually exclusive. We have already kicked out the Native Americans and most of the Rattlesnakes. Is it more important to climb than to preserve our history and natural resources? I'm not saying the answer is yes or no, I just wish there was equal consideration given in this forum to these resources as there is to your pastime.

Legally, hiking off trail is not allowed in any PIPC parks. It's not just the climbing that is against the rules. In addition, the PIPC is required by law to protect its cultural resources and must also protect rare plant and animal species. On the other hand, it is not legally obliged to allow for climbing. It seems that anyone who wants to climb in any PIPC lands should listen to Mr. Crefeld. He has the right idea, in my opinion.


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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Jun 14, 2012
Stoked...

Sounds like you guys are being monitored here on the forum... and I think Enviroman has put the issue from the 'other' side into a good perspective.

Enviroman - just for the record are you associated in any way with any of the parties involved in this issue? Consultant of some sort, PIPC, etc?


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By boulderbum
From NY
Jun 16, 2012

Takes a real POS to invite a park commission member to a climbers forum. Crefeld you are the only one who benefits from this, with your gumby ass guide sales. Enviroman, get a clue...nobodys saying we should dig out caves or exterminate the rattlers...what i said was people shouldnt be climbing there, period. The snake population is thriving and the rock quality is terribly brittle. From the pipc's perspective....powerlinezzzthhh should be the last place in the state that is opened to climbing legally. It is quite literally a shithole, and its mostly beginner/non experienced climbers who would waste time hiking in to such low quality rock.


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By rogerbenton
Jun 17, 2012
Whoever this guy is, he's just plain irresponsible.

boulderbum, you are either sincere in your appraisal of the area in which case you should just bow out of this discussion (if it's worthless choss why do you care whether or not it gets opened?)

-OR-

you quite enjoy powerlines and you are immaturely trying to get everyone else to loose interest so you can "have it to yourself". In which case you should bow out of the conversation because no one is listening to you and no one is going to change their minds on their courses of action based on your posts.


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By kilonot
Jun 18, 2012

I was bummed about the Powerlinez closure until I started climbing in the Gunks and realized what choss Powerlinez is.


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By enviroman42
Jun 20, 2012

Morgan,
No, I am not a consultant, PIPC employee, etc... I actually am just an interested local resident who does a lot of hiking in the area and pays attention to the local goings on. I have a background in environmental science and geology, but don't work in the field. Thanks you, though, for saying that I helped to add perspective.

I can't speak to what boulderbum says about the quality of the rock, though. But, I can speak to the geology of the area. For the most part, all of the rock in this part of NY (and northern NJ) will be brittle old crumbly rock. It's just the nature of the stone.

Thanks for hearing my comments.


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By boulderbum
From NY
Jun 28, 2012

roger - this is probably the 3rd time ive said it now. my interest in this whole mess is not the powerlines...its the thousands of acres in the hudson valley that are managed by the pipc. the whole areas access gets sketchy when shit like this is going on. the less the authorities know about what we do, the better. ive passed park rangers before while hiking with my pad...you think if they knew what it was they wouldnt have busted my balls?

crefeld is a gumby hack trying to whiteknight in a situation that doesnt need it. he stands to benefit by way of sales of his shitty guidebook (literally one of the worst ive ever seen). there are a ton of boulders he can go whine to commissions about in his own state. ever heard of cradle rock? hint, its at mt rose. its diabase and probably worth climbing. go focus your efforts where they might actually be useful.

enviroman - youre admittedly clueless, yet trying to speak on the nature of stone in the area? If you had even a fleeting interest in local geology you'd realize its pretty diverse - the hudson valley has sharp granite, brown basalt, smooth gneisses, and even polished pebbly conglomerates. that's why they're called glacial erratics man. they were placed erratically by glaciers.


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By boulderbum
From NY
Jun 28, 2012

Ryan Williams wrote:
So let me get this straight: Someone wrote a guidebook and publicized a bouldering area that has nothing harder than a V1, then rated the hardest problems at V6, and now the area is so over run w/ beginners than it has been closed down? Classic.



yep, pretty much 5+ pages of this thread in a nutshell right there broseph


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By boulderbum
From NY
Mar 22, 2013

taken from supertopo...however highly relevant to this thread:


Maybe he can get the Gunks closed to climbing like the Watchung cliffs (NJ) got closed because of a single a-hole who had too much time on his hands and wanted to 'officially' get climbing sanctioned as a legitimate activity at the place. Cops used to just look the other way. After this fiasco, cops started writing citations with sizable fines for the first offense. Now that act really thinned the crowds.


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By jon crefeld
Apr 18, 2013

To all concerned, the climbing ban at the Ramapo Powerlinez will lift on May 1st, 2013. The Palisades Interstate Park Commission (PIPC) has partnered with the Torne Valley Climber's Coalition (TVCC) in a precedent setting agreement whereby climbers have been entrusted to oversee the Torne Valley area.

The area will operate on a waiver and permit system, similar to Peterskill, except there will be no fee. The waivers are now available at The Gravity Vault, and will be available at Rock and Snow, NJRG etc.

This is obviously an incredible opportunity. We are the first area and group of climbers with whom The Palisades Interstate Park Commission has partnered, and many thanks to all those contributing and monitoring who took positive steps to represent climbing as a responsible activity. With good stewardship we will all be able to enjoy the local climbing, and this may very well open more doors in the future.

More Info


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By Michael C
From New Jersey
Apr 19, 2013
Mt Minsi, PA

jon crefeld wrote:
To all concerned, the climbing ban at the Ramapo Powerlinez will lift on May 1st, 2013. The Palisades Interstate Park Commission (PIPC) has partnered with the Torne Valley Climber's Coalition (TVCC) in a precedent setting agreement whereby climbers have been entrusted to oversee the Torne Valley area. The area will operate on a waiver and permit system, similar to Peterskill, except there will be no fee. The waivers are now available at The Gravity Vault, and will be available at Rock and Snow, NJRG etc. This is obviously an incredible opportunity. We are the first area and group of climbers with whom The Palisades Interstate Park Commission has partnered, and many thanks to all those contributing and monitoring who took positive steps to represent climbing as a responsible activity. With good stewardship we will all be able to enjoy the local climbing, and this may very well open more doors in the future. More Info



Congratulations Jon! Looking forward to finally climb there.


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By MJMobes
From The land of steady habits
Apr 19, 2013
modern man

in these modern times with tight ass budgets this was a very open minded and smart move on their part. nice work folks.

so where is this place anyways?




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By MojoMonkey
Apr 19, 2013

Congrats on your effort paying off!

On a less serious note, can the next order of business be replacing the "z" in "powerlinez" with an "s"? It feels like something a 13 year old would think was cool.


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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Apr 19, 2013
Stoked...

jon crefeld wrote:
With good stewardship we will all be able to enjoy the local climbing, and this may very well open more doors in the future. More Info


Amazing work Jon and crew... great to see PIPC is actually interested in working with climbers... next up the Hudson river cliffs!


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By worth russell
From Brooklyn, NY
Apr 20, 2013

Boulder bum thoughts/comments?


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By boulderbum
From NY
Apr 21, 2013

i stand by everything ive said - place is a chosspile, only the greenest of gumbies fresh from the gym would think otherwise.

the rock is friable, sharp, and suspect - and houses one of the biggest snake dens in the hudson valley.

much better climbing within hiking distance from torne mtn (real name)...im just thankful the whiteknight traddie brigade knows nothing about them.


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By Steve Knowlton
Apr 21, 2013
Steve K waiting to top out on Betty at the Trapps

boulderbum wrote:
Takes a real POS to invite a park commission member to a climbers forum. Crefeld you are the only one who benefits from this, with your gumby ass guide sales. Enviroman, get a clue...nobodys saying we should dig out caves or exterminate the rattlers...what i said was people shouldnt be climbing there, period. The snake population is thriving and the rock quality is terribly brittle. From the pipc's perspective....powerlinezzzthhh should be the last place in the state that is opened to climbing legally. It is quite literally a shithole, and its mostly beginner/non experienced climbers who would waste time hiking in to such low quality rock.


Maybe you're the clueless one, Buehler. A full environmental review was undertaken as part of the plan before the climbing management plan was approved by the PIPC, and no adverse effect was found on any animal or plant population. You can have your own opinion, but not your own facts.

You think the rock is choss---then don't climb there. It's that simple.

From your other posts, it's clear you are bouldering in other places. I hope that climbing is legal there. If it's not, then you're the best example of what responsible climbers have to overcome in order to get an keep access to climbing sites.


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By boulderbum
From NY
Apr 22, 2013

you missed my point entirely you old swordswallower.

bouldering is legal everywhere, always, unless youre on private land or some kind of pinko commie puke that believes he needs to sign his name on trail journals before he hikes. cause the sign says to, of course.

i dont use ropes or alter the rock so: its nobodys business what i do in the woods. i am usually fully clothed and not hurting anyone else, rangers are usually pretty nice to me. totally indifferent usually, as they should be.

maybe if i wore a bright orange helmet and hangdogged 80 ft off the deck for 2 hours above the highway, id be a little more understanding. but i dont, so im not. go climb at the transit cliffs, at least theres some historic value to along with the choss pump. and bolts so you dont have to worry about the gear you just placed, which will pop without question.


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