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climbing ban at ramapo powerlines
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By T.L. Kushner
Mar 29, 2012
jon, i'm working with the nj/ny trail conference as an intern right now and a lot fo the people i work with have been talking about the area, and the closure pretty regularly. if there's anything you'd like to know from their standpoint let me know. i'd be glad to bring the issues to my boss, and if necessary to his superior.

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By boulderbum
From NY
Apr 2, 2012
Chalk isnt an issue....the high school crowd needs to learn some respect though, at least break the brush outbefore you leave. But i think I know who it was...the little fruit bat wants people to come climb his contrived v6 choss epics. I kinda understand I guess. sucks, sit down starts at this place are like playing russian roulette with a needle full of lymes.
Actually cannot name another crag in NY half as bad with snakes...have had multiple encounters with them back there, and 1 very close call.
isnt torne part of harriman? Looks like it on the maps even though harriman is BULLET next to the rotten flexiness of the powerlines. .

Climbing will never be legal there, unless you purchase the land yourself. This is the northeast man. Come on.

And since nobody else is gonna say it....youd have to be desparate to get on a wall there. The rock falls regularly, FFS the whole cliffline is crumbling.

you trad weakmos should be in the goddamn gym anyway, getting swoll.

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By cms829
Apr 2, 2012
high e
What does that entire post even mean? Honestly? Aside from the facts that we already know. Theres snakes and not so great rock... OK. Cool.

And since I'm a trad climber I should climb in a Gym? That right? Getting....Swoll? Is it? Weakmos? Hmmm.

Ahhh yes....Swoll is out of the "Urban Dictionary"! Why didn't I think of that?

Urban Dictionary: swoll
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=swoll
Ebonics for "Swollen", as in getting "swollen" or "buff" at the gym.

The high school crowd needs to learn some respect, is right.

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By al piner
Apr 3, 2012
Lk Minnewaska
Jon , the reason I never ended up getting involved or getting back to you can pretty much be summed up in the last few posts. Fighting the park system for a close convenient area to climb is one thing but fighting ignorance and arrogance is another.

This time I'll keep my comments and opinions to myself about these members of the climbing community . Their words and actions speak for themselves.

I have been investing my time to a better area, in my opinion, in north Jersey. An overgrown, wasp infested, loose rock fat trad guy's dream. Similar to the Gunks but purple. Best part is not a boulder in site. Ha ha!

Good luck on your fight (from both sides)
Tony

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By jon crefeld
Apr 5, 2012
Al - I'm definitely with you, and you can see that I have to take a break from these boards once in a while. I have a 15 year old son, and sometimes guys just have to be idiots. We're all in for a break from the corporate world and this is the true frontier. And - I know where your frontier is now - I live about 15 minutes away. Do you by any chance, know a guy named Andrew who is thick as thieves with Morris County on access issues for that area? If you ever need a name to drop, he'd be your man. Climb on, and I bet you'll be thinking about bolts over there!

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By jon crefeld
Apr 5, 2012
TL - I have a feeling tentative trail plans are going to start getting submitted. Any chance you've already thought of that? Thanks.

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By jon crefeld
Apr 5, 2012
Boulderbum - Any chance you'd put your money where your mouth is? Since you're already betting that the place will never be legally open. (That's why you have to sneak in, and hurt our chances.) If we get the place legally opened, then you lose the bet and don't come out? Afterall, it is such a choss pile anyway, right!

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By Miike
From MA/CT border
Apr 5, 2012
my foot
why is there so much rock along the Hudson river from the GW bridge all the way up to almost Canada yet very little climbing? Especially from the GW bridge past the Tappan Zee bridge. I see all these parks with rock, whats the deal?

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By boulderbum
From NY
Apr 5, 2012
Dude you didnt discover the place. Why are you acting like you did?

Also, whats up with your rating system? Standard northeast v1s are harder than stuff you list at v6. Had you ever bouldered outside before you wrote the guide?

And mobley, what parks are you talking about? Ive never seen anything that looked even remotely climbable near TZ and im very familiar with the area. Unless you mean the westchosster side.

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By giants98954
Apr 5, 2012
mobley wrote:
why is there so much rock along the Hudson river from the GW bridge all the way up to almost Canada yet very little climbing? Especially from the GW bridge past the Tappan Zee bridge. I see all these parks with rock, whats the deal?


The stuff near the GW and in the parks all the way north to Newburgh is all run by the Palisades Interstate Park Commission which does not like climbing. And because you can see them from roads, they make poor choices for poaching. A few walls on the west side near west point are legit, but the rock quality is crappy. I don't know what the rock situation is farther north, but the river does start in the Dacks, which has plenty of legal climbing.

EDIT: boulderbum, there is a history of climbing (illegally) at the palisades (also this area doesn't look so bad), which is probably what he's talking about, as well as at storm king, west point, arden, harriman and probably other places I don't know about.

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By boulderbum
From NY
Apr 6, 2012
I know about harriman and storm king, west point etc. Like i said...ive never seen anything climbable south of the bear mtn bridge...surely he couldnt of meant the palisades cliffs? Or he wouldve said it?

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By jon crefeld
Apr 6, 2012
Boulderbum - It is true. I did discover this area right after I invented SLCDs and it looks like you're backing off our bet.

But the grading thing is a bonafide issue. It's an indoor/outdoor bouldering rating issue. I calibrated the ratings to my local gyms: the NJRG and the GV. With a little research, the grades kind of match the British B system, which are very kind to the gym noobs.

But it breaks down at V5, where it's supposed to match up. Perfect example: The Immelman, pg 80, V6 - a proud line that's harder then any of the gym-like V5s I put up. T and G come along and trad lead it for a cool 5.11-. I believe that's a Hueco V2. Maybe V1 if you check the Spadeout link: spadout.com/wiki/index.php/Cli....

Sandbag and downgrade me, baby! But, that doesn't solve the rating issue. I tell you who'd have a good feel for it would be Big C from RnS. He route sets for the GV and he's a travellin' man. Maybe we get him to weigh in.

PS - And on Mobley's nicely leading question. Yes, all that rad lookin' rock along the Hudson belongs to the PIPC. And if we're nice and careful here, we have a chance of changing a hundred year policy that makes climbing all that rock illegal.

.

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By Erboutitman
From farmingdale ny
Apr 7, 2012
mr boulder bum is right the grades are way off

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By PosiDave
Apr 7, 2012
If you ever want the grades to be taken serious and not make people think the place is a joke rating to the Gym of NJ are not a good way of doing so.

Someone thinking they can climb v6 can go hop on a real v2 highball and get messed up. I understand why it is rated down for the gym kids. But to be honest it doesn't help them or anyone else other than the ego boost they get posting it on FB for their friends.

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By jon crefeld
Apr 7, 2012
Way off for local climbing gyms? You think 90% of the stuff should be rated VB?

Let's face it, in the long run grades are a consensus thing. I gave my opinion and it is based on a local standard and intended for those people coming out of the local gyms.

If you've got something that is more clear and accurate, (the Hueco standard, right?), I'm sure people won't have a problem with it. Post it up!

Ps - Posidave just saw your post. The standard is explained in the guidebook, and I think you've got to trust people aren't going to jump on Ankle Breaker V2 in the Gunks belowish Jackie when they're not that strong. Maybe just change out the Vs for Bs and really confuse people!

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By PosiDave
Apr 7, 2012
I would said outdoor grades are outdoor grades. Indoor grades are indoor grades. Since it is America. Hueco bouldering / Yosemite would make sense. I mean I could careless regardless but that seems like it would be the best bet.

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By jon crefeld
Apr 7, 2012
The area is best suited as a beginner bouldering crag. So you'd suggest labeling most of it VB and V0- V0--. My personal opining is that if you state your case, don't try and take more credit then you're due people have got to respect it.

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By Erboutitman
From farmingdale ny
Apr 8, 2012
this whole thing is so dumb... but indoor and outdoor climbing is two different things. I don't understand why you can't just go out and climb without making facebook pages and a guidebook. Why didn't you just go there and climb, then leave and repeat the process. I haven't been to powerlines since this "closure" but that isn't because of the closure . I just hope you guys don't take it upon yourselves to make anymore guidebooks to areas that are sensitive. For that matter i hope if you do go to any other area anywhere that you act like a guest and not some entitled activist. It would seem to me that without your presence that none of these issue would have ever came to light.

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By rogerbenton
Apr 8, 2012
Whoever this guy is, he's just plain irresponsible...
i'd rather have a legal climbing/bouldering area with bogus grades that came about because of the climbing community putting their differences aside and coming together as a cohesive entity than a closed area with solid grading accuracy.

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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Apr 8, 2012
El Chorro
So let me get this straight:

Someone wrote a guidebook and publicized a bouldering area that has nothing harder than a V1, then rated the hardest problems at V6, and now the area is so over run w/ beginners than it has been closed down? Classic.

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By jon crefeld
Apr 8, 2012
Admin, thanks for dropping in, and let me bring you in on things. Climbers didn't cause this closure. About four pages back we discussed how the land was just acquired by the Palisades Interstate Park Commission, as it's adjacent to another large parcel of land administrated by them. They have a no climbing policy that effects a great deal of rock in the NY metro area. If we can demonstrate that changing the policy can work in this one area, then it might be possible to open up a lot more climbing opportunities.

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By PosiDave
Apr 8, 2012
The closure isn't because of Climbing it is because of the population of the Tri-state area. Liability and Lawsuits. whatever you want to call it. As for grades I don't care. I just think inflating grades to go with a Gym is stupid. Bouldering? Not really. But half the people that climb in NJ at those areas probably shouldn't been given any more reason to think climbing that highball V2 elsewhere is a great idea.

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By jon crefeld
Apr 10, 2012
You know, the grades really don't matter to me. I'll buy the chips and beverage of your choice when we can sit down and decide which way everybody wants it. But, if your going to change the way the PIPC does business you need votes. You kind of need the beginners to overrun them. And that I think sums it up for me. I can make my peace with that.

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By rogerbenton
Apr 10, 2012
Whoever this guy is, he's just plain irresponsible...
jon crefeld wrote:
I'll buy the chips and beverage of your choice when we can sit down and decide which way everybody wants it. But, if your going to change the way the PIPC does business you need votes.



this

get it open first, hash it out later.

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By slomopho
Apr 18, 2012
Glad someone is trying to get legal access to climbing areas in NNJ area.

Boulderbum you arent looking hard enough. Many hard problems in NNJ.

FLAG


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