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Climber Gets injured on Mr. Meanor 5-8+ Trad mixed route JailHouse Mt. Lemmon
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By Woodchuck ATC
Dec 10, 2009
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008

Joe Kreidel wrote:
I think these are good reminders to us all about the inherent danger in the games we play. If we choose to accept the risk involved in climbing, accidents can happen, even on climbs well below our limit. Rock fall, holds breaking, momentary lapse of concentrations, etc can happen to any of us, unexpectedly, at any time. I did the exact same thing on this route - got to the first bolt, looked for the next bolt, and THEN my belayer remembered that this was a mixed route. Since we were hoping to run laps on this to warm up, I went ahead and ran it out to the second bolt, pretty far up there. No falls, but not something I would not do again. It was definitely my ego that goaded my to finish it -"Dude, it's ONLY 5.8....". But you fall just as hard on a 5.8 as you do a 5.12.

And sometimes a harder landing on the 5.8 cuz that 5.12 is most likely overhanging and allows for a nice airy free fall with no bumps and ledges inbetween. Always carry a couple pieces I say, even on a sporty where you might just feel the need for a backup or a solid rest due to whatever circumstances come up.


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By kirra
Dec 10, 2009

great thread ~ thanks for posting & sharing Kelsey

the thoughtful insights shared from some of the more experienced climbers here definitely contributed to an interesting & important read

best wishes for your partners' complete & speedy recovery


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By DPC
Dec 25, 2012
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I thought I could make the climb and I was wrong. I should have listened to you when you said to come down. We all make our own choices. You also had not much exp on lead belay which I chose to ignore. I think you did a good job of being there for me and owe you both my life. My ego did get in the way that day and I thought I could make the next bolt before I came back down. My ego and poverty led me to go on. I didnt want to leave my gear on the wall and learned a hard lesson. I feel like your post here is more of an attack rather than a serious issue about warning people about climbing. I still climb to this day and whatever happened that day I made it off the mountain alive. I owe Kelsey my life and the other guy who was with us that day ran out of prison camp literally and to the parking lot numerous times. Long story short. I fell. Kelsey did warn me not to continue actually I believe they both warned me but the climb looked easy and I couldnt tell if I had done it before or not.


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By John D
Dec 25, 2012

DPC wrote:
I couldnt tell if I had done it before or not.


You couldn't tell if a bolted route had been done before or not?


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By DPC
Dec 25, 2012
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John D wrote:
You couldn't tell if a bolted route had been done before or not?


I said "I couldnt tell if I had done it before or not."


www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/i


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By DPC
Dec 25, 2012
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John D wrote:
You couldn't tell if a bolted route had been done before or not?



I as in I. Me. Myself.


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By Dragon
Dec 27, 2012

dan you climb?


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By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Dec 27, 2012
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV

Scott McMahon wrote:
Man, "pulled" starts to sound weired when you say it alot...


every word is like this, i've found. Found. Found. Found.

Kelsey did say that he was "sitting at the first bolt" when they were discussing the stich. I took "pull" as just demanding that he not continue/lowering him from the first bolt and not literally pulling him off the wall.

If the climber decided to keep going, that's his choice. It is then the belayer's responsibility to safely belay. Of course, alpine situations are a little different as everyone's life is at stake with every decision, so it is more of a group vote than a, "i'm climbing this" - "OK, but I think yer gunna die" type decision.

Glad everyone is OK.


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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Dec 27, 2012
Stoked...

From my experiences the only way you get rope burn belaying is if the rope is allowed to become uncontrolled... and you then try to control it.

It sounds like he took a big fall and the belayer didn't do what they were expected to do... hold the rope, at least not right away.

I would highly suggest using an autolocking belay device going forward until you become more competent on an ATC or whatever non locking device you were using.

It still baffels me to be honest that people use non autolockers for belaying.


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By ascender30
From Columbia, MD
Dec 27, 2012

@Paul and everyone else:

Paul presents, I think, the most salient learning point - namely the tip about always having a bit of gear, unless you KNOW the route doesn't require it for your level. I would summarize my lessons learned from this event: If you've never been on a route, be prepared...to bail (should have); to place gear (didn't bring any); to climb as a member of an experienced team (didn't happen); if you're hanging at the first bolt, and sketchy on the moves to the second, BAIL! (see first point)

In conclusion, I would like to express my personal admiration and gratitude for the rescue personnel. You guys know the deal, and I'm so thankful you did what you did.

J


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By Pete Spri
Dec 27, 2012

Holy necro threads, batman!


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By bradyk
Dec 27, 2012

Kelsey, I know this was 3 years ago, and I wasn't there, but how did you get a rope burn? I presume that if you got a rope burn from "creating tension on his line to slow him down", that would mean that you did not fully brake the rope and you let the climber fall all the way to the ground, making it your fault that the climber decked. If you had properly caught his fall you probably would have been pulled off the ground and hanging around 5-10 ft up without 2nd degree burns on your hand. For your hands to get burned the rope had to be sizzling through the belay device. Sorry DPC, it sounds like you got dropped.


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By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Dec 27, 2012
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV

Spri wrote:
Holy necro threads, batman!


Holy phoenix, you're right. I didn't realize how old this thing was. Zombie thread... Back from the dead.


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By Rocky_Mtn_High
From Arvada, CO
Dec 27, 2012
Lamb's Slide

DPC wrote:
I thought I could make the climb and I was wrong. I should have listened to you when you said to come down. We all make our own choices. You also had not much exp on lead belay which I chose to ignore. I think you did a good job of being there for me and owe you both my life. My ego did get in the way that day and I thought I could make the next bolt before I came back down. My ego and poverty led me to go on. I didnt want to leave my gear on the wall and learned a hard lesson. I feel like your post here is more of an attack rather than a serious issue about warning people about climbing. I still climb to this day and whatever happened that day I made it off the mountain alive. I owe Kelsey my life and the other guy who was with us that day ran out of prison camp literally and to the parking lot numerous times. Long story short. I fell. Kelsey did warn me not to continue actually I believe they both warned me but the climb looked easy and I couldnt tell if I had done it before or not.


DPC, wow, thanks for your response (remarkably, four years later!). I am very glad to hear that you are recovered and still climbing! There are always lessons learned in accidents, so thanks for sharing.

bradyk wrote:
Kelsey, I know this was 3 years ago, and I wasn't there, but how did you get a rope burn? I presume that if you got a rope burn from "creating tension on his line to slow him down", that would mean that you did not fully brake the rope and you let the climber fall all the way to the ground, making it your fault that the climber decked. If you had properly caught his fall you probably would have been pulled off the ground and hanging around 5-10 ft up without 2nd degree burns on your hand. For your hands to get burned the rope had to be sizzling through the belay device. Sorry DPC, it sounds like you got dropped.


Kelsey Rentchler wrote:
What i meant by creating tension on the line was: I had my left hand on break, had take up as much slack as possible that way but at the last minute I realized there was still too much rope so with my right hand I jumped up and grabbed the climbers side of the rope to create tension while still breaking with my left.


Sounds as if there were a lot of slack in the system, but since the original post noted that the climber was clipping after a 15' runout, that pretty much yields a maximum amount of slack. My speculation is that the belayer saw the fall, locked off, and instinctively grabbed the climber's side of the rope with her non-brake hand, thereby resulting in the burn. The only way to have taken in more slack quickly would have been to run away (back or sideways), and the belayer explained she couldn't move back as she was blocked by a tree. I wonder how far up she was yanked once the belay took hold...

I recently caught a climber (on ice no less) who fell when clipping a screw, and I was shocked how far he fell -- significantly farther than I expected based simply on how far he was above the last screw (yes, I was expecting double that distance) because of some amount of slack, the additional rope stretch, and the distance I was yanked up. (Amazingly and thankfully, he cleared a bulge in the ice and had a clean fall, despite all the sharp, pointy metal stuff attached to his body.) This incident really made me realize how much risk we all take when leading above pro when there is an obstruction even below twice the distance to the last pro -- more than I previously realized.


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By Tradoholic
Dec 27, 2012

Lesson = Don't be a dumbass.


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By TWK
Dec 27, 2012

One doesn't necessarily have to be a dumbass to get too exposed and take a fall.


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By DPC
Dec 28, 2012
.

Dragon wrote:
dan you climb?


You created a account today to ask me if I climb and know my name even though its not mentioned. Therefore...


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By DPC
Dec 28, 2012
.

Lets not get all of our panties in a bunch here. I fell, learned a lesson about climbing the hard way and that is that. How and why does not matter. Who is at fault does not matter, nor does Kelsey's wording of her experience "pulling" etc. I think we all get what she meant. Shit happens. It happened so fast she cant probably recall what or how she reacted. Anyone questioning her actions or talking shit should worry about their own business. I dont even know how or why I got sucked into this Bullshit conversation. But thanks Rocky Mountain High for keepin it positive.


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By DPC
Dec 28, 2012
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Lets all talk about our ego's and what we would have done instead. Wait I think that already happened.


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By AnonymooseCoward
Dec 28, 2012
describe the photo <br />

You might know dragon.....


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By DPC
Dec 28, 2012
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JasonDavis wrote:
You might know dragon.....


Dragon. What an epic name. Hahaha I love you Jason. Thanks for showing me this silly thread. My code name is
Double dragon.

@ "dragon" do you breath hot fiya ?


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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Dec 28, 2012
Stoked...

DPC wrote:
Lets all talk about our ego's and what we would have done instead. Wait I think that already happened.


Nothing to do with ego... it sounds to me like you were dropped. Plain and simple... You don't get rope burns if a device is locked off or your are in control of the brake end.

This thread sucks - some chick writes a post blaming the climber for decking - when in fact she dropped the dude. Die Zombie Thread.


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By Will S
From Joshua Tree
Dec 28, 2012

CaptainMo wrote:
Nothing to do with ego... it sounds to me like you were dropped. Plain and simple... You don't get rope burns if a device is locked off or your are in control of the brake end. This thread sucks - some chick writes a post blaming the climber for decking - when in fact she dropped the dude.


Huh? Sure you can get rope burns with a locked off device, especially on the opposite hand. Had it happen, more than once. Climber falls, device gets locked, slack piles up above the device as they fall, then zings back out as the pro comes into play and rope goes tight. If you've got a body part anywhere near the rope as it goes tight, you can get burned easily.


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By Guy Keesee
From Moorpark, CA
Dec 28, 2012
Big Boulder, just a bit downhill from Temple of Kali. Alabama Hills, CA.

"It still baffels me to be honest that people use non autolockers for belaying.

Mo.... your baffeled? why?

I have been climbing for almost 40 years.... where did all the time go???

I don't like to use auto-locking for many reasons but the #1 is this:

When the leader starts flying, I hang on hard. Its just the way it is.

I do use a grigri (sp) on very steep sport, sometimes, but I just have never felt really expert with its use.... so I use a ATC.

After reading all the back and forth on this topic my .02 is this, and I have watched this go down many times.
Belayer has to much slack in system to begin with and is not ready for the leader to fall off. Also the ATC is not locked off so when the flyer goes down.... rope gets pulled through devise and the last hand going to the climber. Belayers hand knows this, so it grabs down tight while rope rips through, burning the hand.

Good thing no one died.


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By bearbreeder
Dec 28, 2012

you shouldnt get burned on yr brake hand when cragging no matter what device you use ...

if you do the belayer screwed up ... or/and you made a poor belayer/rope size decision prior to leaving the ground

on multi with a high factor fall it could be a different story ... but this is cragging

its that simple ;)


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