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Climber assists person who fell, then gets a citation from Forest Service
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By Dave Bn
From Fort Collins, CO
Apr 5, 2014
Dreamweaver
This thread may be the quickest validation of Goodwin's Law in the history of the webs.

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By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Apr 5, 2014
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV
Godwin's Law* -- and yep. Agreed.

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By wankel7
From Indiana
Apr 6, 2014
So exactly what was the injured leader's partner doing while he was hurt?

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By TBlom
Apr 6, 2014
No good deed goes unpunished...

Talk about typical governmental idiocy!

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By the Ascender
From . . . CO
Apr 6, 2014
My shadow is forcing me into the overhanging crux.
Unfortunately I've seen this same type of attitude and ineptitude with SAR several times before.
In fact, I've never seen an efficient SAR operation - and they have always dismissed any type of civi (or non-SAR personnel) assistance - in this case not only do they NOT thank the civi, they have him cited!?

Strange, power-trippy behavior.

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By Scott M. McNamara
From Tucson, Arizona
Apr 6, 2014
One Way Sunset
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's...

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By Adam Stackhouse
Administrator
Apr 6, 2014
Courtright Reservoir, September 2013
Eliot Augusto wrote:
As for the whole "he was just following orders" being cast in a negative light, I think that is a faulty line of thought. In every position that I have held that revolved around security and safety, there was usually an oath of loyalty to something. To the people you enforce rules on, to your superiors, to a code or something similar.


The Constitution maybe?

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By doligo
Apr 6, 2014
Jose Cuervo Fruitcups dirtbag style
Jonathan Dull wrote:
I think the main concern had to do with the rotor wash from the Blackhawk and the possibility of him become a patient as well or possibly dislodging rocks that could fall onto the rescue operation or Blackhawk.


This. The military probably has strict guidelines on when/where to fly when there are civilians involved. What may look like a good distance for us, was probably not enough for the helo pilot. Plus, once the chopper rescue got initiated there would not be a good way to communicate with the good samaritan - if you notice, the rescuers all have noise-proof helmets and probably communicate through radio with each other and the pilot.

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By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Apr 6, 2014
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stiletto, Sharkstooth, Forbidden Tower, Petit Grepon, The Saber, The Foil, The Moon & The Jackknife.
MJMobes wrote:
Really, I bet the citation writer was a big fat scared pusswad who was shitting himself and couldnt do anything but try and be a tough guy to cover his fear of heights. Scared power trippers are all over, usually with the badges they flock towards. Yes, similar to the SS


I'm really looking for a sign of sarcasm here, but don't see it.

The citation writer tracked a murderer through an unknown area knowing full well that he might be walking into an ambush and he lost his life doing so. He did it all in the name of keeping the public safe. "Big fact scared pusswad" might not be the best way to describe him.

Knowing what little I know about the rescue, I don't agree with the citation either, but there are avenues for fighting tickets in this country. It sounds like the civilian rescuer has a solid case to fight his way out of the citation. Either way, the fine is probably less than the cost of a new rope and whatever gear he used in the anchor to secure the fallen climber. I'll bet he would have done the same thing even if he knew he would get a ticket--he certainly sounds like a selfless individual.

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By MJMobes
From The land of steady habits
Apr 6, 2014
modern man
Marc H wrote:
I'm really looking for a sign of sarcasm here, but don't see it. The citation writer tracked a murderer through an unknown area knowing full well that he might be walking into an ambush and he lost his life doing so. He did it all in the name of keeping the public safe. "Big fact scared pusswad" might not be the best way to describe him. Knowing what little I know about the rescue, I don't agree with the citation either, but there are avenues for fighting tickets in this country. It sounds like the civilian rescuer has a solid case to fight his way out of the citation. Either way, the fine is probably less than the cost of a new rope and whatever gear he used in the anchor to secure the fallen climber. I'll bet he would have done the same thing even if he knew he would get a ticket--he certainly sounds like a selfless individual.


yeah no, even tough guy cops get scared and do stupid shit. Possibly he was being stupid again when he died. Possibly he was a moron. All I know is scared stupid morons are all over the place, usually with guns.

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By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Apr 6, 2014
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stiletto, Sharkstooth, Forbidden Tower, Petit Grepon, The Saber, The Foil, The Moon & The Jackknife.
MJMobes wrote:
Possibly he was being stupid again when he died. Possibly he was a moron.


Anything is possible. I don't know why you would assume that he was being stupid. I'm not a huge fan of a large percentage of the rangers and cops that I've had contact with to be honest, but I think you're being unfair to this particular LEO.

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about our troops serving overseas? Do you similarly consider them cowardly and moronic?

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By Brassmonkey
Apr 6, 2014
Brass monkey
This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.

By FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Apr 6, 2014
MJMobes wrote:
yeah no, even tough guy cops get scared and do stupid shit. Possibly he was being stupid again when he died. Possibly he was a moron. All I know is scared stupid morons are all over the place, usually with guns.



Can you imagine a family member of the deceased reading this thread and seeing comments like that?

This describes the situation
This describes the situation

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By dan zika
From jax wy
Apr 7, 2014
tower fever <br />
As a civillian that has been underneath a SAR helo at a rescue. It is a loud scarey place to be in the mtns. Debris is flying everywhere. Personally who cares what was said I would try to get away!!!! A blackhawk yet even more noise & power!!! Rocks would be flying!!!! Thats why hand signals & walkie talkies R used.

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By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Apr 7, 2014
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stiletto, Sharkstooth, Forbidden Tower, Petit Grepon, The Saber, The Foil, The Moon & The Jackknife.
dan zika wrote:
As a civillian that has been underneath a SAR helo at a rescue. It is a loud scarey place to be in the mtns. Debris is flying everywhere. Personally who cares what was said I would try to get away!!!! A blackhawk yet even more noise & power!!! Rocks would be flying!!!! Thats why hand signals & walkie talkies R used.


Did you read the articles posted or were you more interested in how many exclamation points you used and abbreviating three-letter words? ;-)

The civilian rescuer was 200' off the ground and his rope was anchored 150' above him; it was also in use by the SAR team. At best, getting away would consist of prussiking 150' of rope directly above an active rescue.

He rappelled 150 feet down the side of Shortoff Mountain to help.
...
“And this is where it gets sticky because once they got there they wanted me to leave, but I could not leave because they were using my equipment that I was going to use to leave with,” he said. “It's not like I'm on the ground and can walk away. You know, I'm 200 feet up a cliff."

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By Jamespio
Apr 7, 2014
MJMobes wrote:
All I know is scared stupid morons are all over the place


You certainly just proved that point.

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By suprasoup
From Rio Rancho, NM
Apr 7, 2014
False Summit of the Thumb
wankel7 wrote:
So exactly what was the injured leader's partner doing while he was hurt?



^^this.

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By MJMobes
From The land of steady habits
Apr 7, 2014
modern man
Marc H wrote:
Did you read the articles posted or were you more interested in how many exclamation points you used and abbreviating three-letter words? ;-) The civilian rescuer was 200' off the ground and his rope was anchored 150' above him; it was also in use by the SAR team. At best, getting away would consist of prussiking 150' of rope directly above an active rescue. He rappelled 150 feet down the side of Shortoff Mountain to help. ... “And this is where it gets sticky because once they got there they wanted me to leave, but I could not leave because they were using my equipment that I was going to use to leave with,” he said. “It's not like I'm on the ground and can walk away. You know, I'm 200 feet up a cliff."


common sense has nothing to do with anything on Mtn Proj so dont start now. flame on n00bs.

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By Michael C
From New Jersey
Apr 8, 2014
Mt Minsi, PA
Stich wrote:
Way to go Forest Service! Next time get all of the f'ing information correct. That might guide your pencil pushing. wsoctv.com/news/news/state-reg... Hats off to the unidentified climber that helped the guy that fell. He rappelled down to him, built an anchor for him on the tiny ledge, and stayed with him over two hours and called in the rescue. He also guided the helicopter to the victim. But he couldn't just leave the area when instructed to, so he did as best as he could and moved up slope. An interview with the climber that fell: los.com/shared/news/features/t...


jeesh.

if I were the victim, I would pay the climber's citation.

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By Jonathan Dull
From Boone, NC
Apr 8, 2014
Edge of a Dream
MJMobes wrote:
yeah no, even tough guy cops get scared and do stupid shit. Possibly he was being stupid again when he died. Possibly he was a moron. All I know is scared stupid morons are all over the place, usually with guns.


You're an idiot dude.

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By chuffnugget
From Bolder, CO
Apr 8, 2014
..still Obama's fault

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By jumping fish
Apr 10, 2014
tree climbing Love it.
David Sahalie wrote:
..still Obama's fault


absolutely

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By NC Rock Climber
From The Oven, AKA Phoenix
Sep 9, 2014
tanuki
facebook.com/rockandice/posts/...

facebook.com/groups/wcclimbers...

FWIW, I climbed with Wes a few times while I lived in NC and saw him at the gym a bunch. Besides being a very competent and strong climber, he is a totally honest and genuine person. I am sure that there are two sides to this story, but I have to believe that the account written by Wes is as close to true and objective as you are going to get.

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By bearbreeder
Sep 9, 2014
You dont get in the way of those whirly birds

The rescue of an injured hiker in a Southwest Alaska national park Sunday evening led to the injury of another hiker when the rescue helicopter kicked up a rock that hit the second man in the head, according to the National Park Service.

The Alaska Air National Guard responded Sunday evening to a call that Brian Dodd, 34, had suffered possible life-threatening injuries after falling down a steep, rocky cliff on Copper Mountain in Lake Clark National Park and Preserve. Kenton Hotsko, 29, was then injured during the rescue, Alaska State Troopers wrote in a dispatch.

Hotsko was in critical condition on Wednesday, said Providence Alaska Medical Center spokesperson Ginger Houghton. Dodd was in fair condition, she said.

Dodd was out with Hotsko and two other hikers on a two-day kayaking and hiking trip over the holiday weekend, said Lake Clark National Park public information officer Megan Richotte.

Dodd, of Port Angeles, Washington, is a seasonal maintenance employee at the park. Hotsko, of Arizona, is a term employee, Richotte said. Both had been working at the park since May.

On Sunday evening, the four hikers were up near the top of Copper Mountain, which rises to an elevation of 4,953 feet, Richotte said. The hikers came upon some unstable rock, she said, and the rocks Dodd were standing on gave way beneath him.

Dodd fell between 30 to 50 feet down a scree slope, “an unstable slope with rock that slides,” Richotte said.

Dodd suffered potentially life-threatening injuries in the fall, according to troopers. The other members of the hiking party provided first aid, but were unable to evacuate Dodd given his injuries and the unstable terrain, according to the Alaska Air National Guard.

The three hikers called the Alaska Wildlife Trooper in Port Alsworth around 7:49 p.m., troopers reported. By 10:52 p.m., two Air National Guard aircraft, an HH-60 Pave Hawk helicopter and an HC-130, were on scene, having flown from the Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson.

The hikers were stranded on a vertical cliff face when the helicopters arrived, troopers wrote.

“The terrain in the area was very steep, and when we arrived on scene it was dark, which required our crews to use night vision goggles to execute the mission,” Lt. Col. Karl Westerlund, director of the Alaska Rescue Coordination Center, said in a press release.

During the rescue, “The rotor wash from a helicopter kicked rock above loose and hit (Hotsko) in the head,” Richotte said.


adn.com/article/20140903/hiker...

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By BigFeet
From Texas
Sep 9, 2014
Well, all of this taken into account, I would still "get in the way" if it means I'm first on scene to assist someone in a situation such as what has been given in this thread.

Assist the best that you can until you can't, or until someone else is able to take over - that is my thought.

All of the given situations seem to be that the ones that would need to be rescued or assisting were in a precarious position. If anything, I would think SAR would be trained to deal with such situations. These "victims" would be under stress, not use to operating under such an environment like a helicopter, cramped area with multiple people, tired, worried about the injured, etc.

Is the assisting/first responding person taking directions from SAR, doing the best they can to mitigate degrading the situation, and then cited for some infraction?

Make you think about helping?

Kind of a sad excuse to give more grief to those who are involved in such an incident. My thoughts, anyway.

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