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Cleaning up MP--Post Deletions
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By JoeP
From Littleton, CO
Mar 6, 2012

+1 Stich.


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By MegaGaper2000
From Indianola, Wa
Mar 6, 2012
the dragon's tail, or dragon's tooth, or whatever. And me.

Andy Laakmann wrote:
@Yarp - why was it deleted? Because you are being an ass. Go troll somewhere else.


Owned.


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By M Sprague
Administrator
From New England
Mar 6, 2012
Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lichen covered look from scrubbing a new route.

daniel arthur wrote:
I am all for censorship, but I am also for acountability. The admin's can censor whoever he or she pleases. They just need to realize that if people feel like they can not have a different opinion than the admins then they will leave and this community will die. @coldfinger, a couple problems with your Bar scenario: 1. None of us our paying guests. 2. If the Bar owner kicks out too many patrons it will cease to be a bar, and will simply be an empty building with lots of drinks.

As an admin I can see what has been removed and replaced by a note. I haven't seen any abuse or over zealousness on the part of moderators. I don't think any of them like having to waste time cleaning up after the handful of posters who seem incapable of understanding the simple concept "Don't be a jerk" and flood the site with constant petty negativity.

If you look at the contributions of this handful of posters, very little of it is beneficial. Most of it is juvenile comments, bickering, personal attacks and then whining when the worst of it is removed. If left to fester, this turns the forums into something like rockclimbing.com, which turns off most other users.

As far as accountability, the vast majority of people are not having anything censored. Nobody is trying to make MP into some sort of homogenized, white bread experience. From what I can see, the owners are trying to create a positive exchange of information for the climbing community, not a forum for tools to slime each other. If those who can't go along with that idea feel incensed and go away or end up getting banned, I'm all for it.


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By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Mar 6, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

I think mods are really creating more work for themselves. There will always be new users that are dicks. There will always be thread hijacking that turns into pissing contests in ANY public forum. It could be a crocheting forum and that would happen. It's just the nature of semi-anonymous venues. You're not going to utterly stamp it out. And for each person that you satisfy by censoring, there's probably a person that is dissatisfied because it's now boring or monotonous or just too goddamned shiny/happy. So who do you please? If someone can't handle being called a noob, having it pointed out that they're annoying, post too much, spray drivel, are a poser, are just flat out wrong, then they probably shouldn't be here in the first place. They should be at home with a lip-tight seal around mommy's nipple.

So what if a thread drags out? It's ok if it's way off topic and filled with bullshit as long as no one's wittle feewins get hurt? There are as many threads that diverge into something totally different because of hilarity as there are because two users get into a personal pissing match.

Some people need to hear that they don't know shit. I myself have been rudely told that I was trying to look like I knew something that I was utterly clueless about. And you know what? Although I was rubbed the wrong way, they were right. Some people need to be coddled. Some people need to feel this sense of community with a bunch of people- the vast majority of whom they will never meet in their lives. I don't think that one is more ridiculous and unecessary than the other. The point is that to take away one, you're inadvertently encouraging the other, and that changes the atmosphere here that most of us really like. I basically just wrote a novel on what Stich managed to say in a few sentences. So yeah; I agree.


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By MegaGaper2000
From Indianola, Wa
Mar 6, 2012
the dragon's tail, or dragon's tooth, or whatever. And me.

M Sprague wrote:
As far as accountability, the vast majority of people are not having anything censored. Nobody is trying to make MP into some sort of homogenized, white bread experience. From what I can see, the owners are trying to create a positive exchange of information for the climbing community, not a forum for tools to slime each other.


Werd. "Carnival atmosphere" sends most folks home.

There are a few MP users, sometimes including myself, nowadays, who are tolerant of this shit, and will get involved with it. You will notice that when a thread 'blows up', almost everybody else stops posting. The view count stays high, and the posts from the 'hardy few' keep the thread on the front page, but it becomes a disappointing red herring for the vast majority of people who are not interested in 'a carnival atmoosphere' created by asshat gapers spewing soporific spray.


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By s.price
From PS,CO
Mar 6, 2012
 Morning Dew ,self portrait

muttonface wrote:
I basically just wrote a novel on what Stich managed to say in a few sentences. So yeah; I agree.

+1 would suffice.


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By Alex Swan
From West
Mar 6, 2012
Rather Grand

Most of the negativity comes from users who strive to reach the status of Killis and John L.

They're funny. There is a fine line between funny and being a complete ass


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By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Mar 6, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

s.price wrote:
+1 would suffice.


I apologize for my verbosity. Maybe it will get stricken from the record.


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By MegaGaper2000
From Indianola, Wa
Mar 6, 2012
the dragon's tail, or dragon's tooth, or whatever. And me.

muttonface wrote:
Some people need to hear that they don't know shit. I myself have been rudely told that I was trying to look like I knew something that I was utterly clueless about. And you know what? Although I was rubbed the wrong way, they were right.


The mods aren't deleting smackdowns. They're deleting asshattery.



Also, by the by: the code is out there for all the 'voluntary censorship' that people have talked about. Over at thestranger.com, a seatle alt-weekly, comments from unregistered users show up as a link that says "show comment from unregistered user". If you click the link, the it is replaced by the comment.

FWIW, I think the mods are being a bit lazy not doing the same thing here.


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By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Mar 6, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

milfred wrote:
Most of the negativity comes from users who strive to reach the status of Killis and John L. They're funny. There is a fine line between funny and being a complete ass


The problem comes in the interpretation of being a jerk. Is being sarcastic a jerk? Or is drifting a thread on purpose and posting off-topic comments being a jerk? Do you have to outright call someone a shitbag? I see some that are constantly cynical and dump derision upon almost anyone, yet most of their posts stay. dorseyec I've seen others that are blunt and candid and opinionated and most of theirs go. Yarp I think this is the chief complaint. I could be wrong though.


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By M Sprague
Administrator
From New England
Mar 6, 2012
Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lichen covered look from scrubbing a new route.

^^^I don't see MP turning into what you are projecting, Muttonface. And yes, the forum will never get rid of every jerk post while still keeping it open as most climbers expect. That is part of maintaining a quality site. For a clear example of the difference between a free for all forum and one that has some oversight, check out most news stories or youtube videos and all the drivel that is posted as comment below, and a site like the New York Times where interesting, varied and intelligent discussion follows.


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By Buff Johnson
Mar 6, 2012
smiley face

Stich wrote:
Those nattering nabobs of negativism! Those pusillanimous pussyfooters! Those hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history!


Friggin facilitating firecrackers of farm-stockery!


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By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Mar 6, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

M Sprague wrote:
^^^I don't see MP turning into what you are projecting, Muttonface. And yes, the forum will never get rid of every jerk post while still keeping it open as most climbers expect. That is part of maintaining a quality site. For a clear example of the difference between a free for all forum and one that has some oversight, check out most news stories or youtube videos and all the drivel that is posted as comment below, and a site like the New York Times where interesting, varied and intelligent discussion follows.


Fair enough. I guess I'd just like to see it applied more evenly.


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By daniel arthur
From Auburn,Al
Mar 6, 2012

M Sprague wrote:
...As far as accountability, the vast majority of people are not having anything censored.


This is not acountability, Thats just typical censorship.

BTW, an admin acounting for other admins isnt acountability either.


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By M Sprague
Administrator
From New England
Mar 6, 2012
Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lichen covered look from scrubbing a new route.

We are all climbers too, and as a group I have never known climbers not to be a little irreverent, so I don't think you are going to see MP turn sterile. If it did and because of that less people used it, than that is accountability.

I don't see censorship as it is here as anything more than kids being made to be quite and stand in the corner after screaming poopiehead one too many times and disturbing everybody elses day at the crag. I am sure they think the parent is being mean and unfair.


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By s.price
From PS,CO
Mar 6, 2012
 Morning Dew ,self portrait

muttonface wrote:
I apologize for my verbosity. Maybe it will get stricken from the record.

+1 :)


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By daniel arthur
From Auburn,Al
Mar 6, 2012

M Sprague wrote:
so I don't think you are going to see MP turn sterile. If it did and because of that less people used it, than that is accountability.


No, people leaving would be an effect of lack of accountability.


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By M Sprague
Administrator
From New England
Mar 6, 2012
Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lichen covered look from scrubbing a new route.

Boissal wrote:
There were no cries for help in 1984 but I'll let that one slide. I personally think it would be nice if posts deemed offensive by the admins could simply be hidden. A lot of websites do that with their comment threads. When things start looking like swiss cheese and stop making sense due to too many hidden posts, it's nice to have the option to look at them. ...


The problem with that suggestion is that if people could choose to see them and answer back, the same flood occurs.


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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Mar 6, 2012
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Peak.

Look, we already have the FLAG link on the right of all posts. Those of you out there that are offended, just FLAG what offends you and then the mods can decide from there if they want to delete it.


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By Sir chuffs alot
From Utah
Mar 6, 2012

IMHO, the new moderation is not improving the quality of this site at all but is instead encouraging the entitlement of few whiney personas who feel that their inability to deal with conflict should dictate the rules for everyone else. No one is forced to read these threads. If you are tired of Yarp's posts, stop reading them. Only you have the power of self-restraint, try using that instead of demanding that the rest of the community change their behaviors to accommodate you. It is clear from the responses here that the majority of posters view the "trolls" as amusing and are one of the major reasons that they read these forums. I think the number of people complaining about these types of behaviors is in the minority, even if they are exceeding loud. Ironically, I find many of the complainers to be the worst offenders in terms of antagonism and name calling, but I would never want them to be censored either. I know the idea that we are all responsible for our own feelings is a radical one, but think about it.


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By Pete Spri
Mar 6, 2012

Keenan Waeschle wrote:
not even 10 minutes. To those who want a good laugh check out the new song by lil' b and andy milinakis, if I posted the name I'd violate rule #1 again. I think people posting dickish things will end up being ostracized themselves eventually. So what if people like ellinor get torn apart, there is a clear consensus that she is annoying and "a troll". Yarp posts abrasive stuff but it doesn't mean it's not true. Stop censoring everyone. It just creates confusion.


And you feel that it's ok to tear someone apart because...??

Sorry, you can disagree with someone civily without becoming an ass yourself.

I have no problem with difference of opinion, with you disliking someone, or even with you being upset by something that was posted that you feel is misguiding the noobs (zomg, PAS!!!!).

The only thing I have a problem with is the tone, words chosen, and nasty attitude that is plastered all over these types of posts. As if that person is somehow "justified" in getting as nasty and uncivil as possible. Yuck.

Mods, +1 to what the OP said. TY and keep up the good work.


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By Adam Stackhouse
Administrator
Mar 6, 2012
Courtright Reservoir, September 2013

Barney Smith wrote:
IMHO, the new moderation is not improving the quality of this site at all but is instead encouraging the entitlement of few whiney personas who feel that their inability to deal with conflict should dictate the rules for everyone else. No one is forced to read these threads. If you are tired of Yarp's posts, stop reading them. Only you have the power of self-restraint, try using that instead of demanding that the rest of the community change their behaviors to accommodate you. It is clear from the responses here that the majority of posters view the "trolls" as amusing and are one of the major reasons that they read these forums. I think the number of people complaining about these types of behaviors is in the minority, even if they are exceeding loud. Ironically, I find many of the complainers to be the worst offenders in terms of antagonism and name calling, but I would never want them to be censored either. I know the idea that we are all responsible for our own feelings is a radical one, but think about it.


Sensible reply. Thanks!


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By s.price
From PS,CO
Mar 6, 2012
 Morning Dew ,self portrait

Maybe by the mods instigating this practice we can eliminate some of the frequent I CAN OUT TALK YOU I CAN OUTSHOCK YOU one upmanship chest beating. Not that it isn't entertaining on occasion but pages of this action grows weary fast. Even picking on ELLENOR loses it's magic after about three posts.


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By mongoose
Mar 6, 2012

everybody chill out


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Mar 6, 2012
Bocan

Anyone remember the kids from Wyoming a few years back that were causing all the disruption?? Haha...they really shook everyone up!

I believe they got banned.


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