Check out this anchor setup--what are your thoughts?

I'm relatively new to trad, but have climbed sport for years. Assume that I know how to place gear properly. I found a video that shows an anchor setup that I feel comfortable with, but I'm curious what you guys think.

(fast forward to ~3:30)

youtube.com/watch?v=oV4sqG1…

When the climber anchors himself in (~4:00), he does so only with a clove hitch onto a locking carabiner *above* the figure-eight.

1) Does that look okay? I like the idea of just one clove hitch--very easy. But would you also use a backup, and if so, where?
2) Would that method also be acceptable for a hanging belay?
3) Can multiple people clip themselves to the anchor that way simultaneously, or should the second (or even the third) clip in elsewhere?

Thanks. My main concern is finding a method that is efficient and simple. (Whenever I clip in, the setup is usually very cluttered, especially when bolts are involved.)

That is standard practice for using a cordalette.

Yes, you can use this setup for a hanging belay.

The second (and third, if there is one) can clip in to the hero point (the loop at the bottom). There is no need for them to clip in above the figure-8 (the "shelf") with the leader because the reverso (or atc guide or whatever) won't be in the way in the hero anymore.

1. Definitely looks OK. My only comment would be maybe to give the knot at the masterpoint a few more wraps ("figure-9") to raise the master point up a bit. Then clipping into the masterpoint may be more convenient. Your second may want to clip into the shelf, but the masterpoint is the obvious place to clip in, so making it at chest height is ideal.

Personally I clip into my cordelette anchors just as this person did once I finish leading. A backup is not necesary provided you a single strand of each leg of the cordelette.

2. Acceptable, yes.

3. Yes, but as I said, it can get cluttered visually (there's a lot of cord up there). My preference would be to put the masterpoint higher and have the second clip to the masterpoint.

4 pieces all in the same loose(?) block.

Agree with JLP. Looks like overkill on the pro, not a great place for a cordelette, which is too long, and on the slow side setting up.

This wasn't a multipitch climb, but making the belayer sit there belaying you for all that time is super inefficient for multipitch routes. Clip in with a tether after a bombproof piece and call off belay so the second can get ready while the rest of the anchor is constructed. By the time the leader says on belay, the second should be able all ready to go and be able to start climbing in a matter of seconds.

What JLP said. Also, if they were going to stay on belay the entire time they built the anchor they should have at least clipped a piece in the beginning.

I think it's kind of a pain in the sack dealing with the double fisherman's knot in the cordellete, so instead of clipping the first piece tie a clove hitch in the cord and cinch it right up near the biner and it will help to keep it out of the way.

M LaViolette Jr. wrote:I think it's kind of a pain in the sack dealing with the double fisherman's knot in the cordellete, so instead of clipping the first piece tie a clove hitch in the cord and cinch it right up near the biner and it will help to keep it out of the way.

I've never heard this before. I like it.

The cordelette tie off/topshelf clip-in is textbook and bomber. That said, the larger picture left me wondering. Dude in the video skipped some steps, but then added painful-to-watch redundancies and extra steps (like the cordelette, and that fourth piece) that cost him any time he saved and then some.

Why build an exposed anchor ten feet from class 4 terrain?
Why build a complex cordelette anchor instead of a quick rope or sling anchor, especially when the next pitch is not an issue?
Why not immediately clip your first anchor piece to reduce the lead fall potential (looked runout ~3:08)?
Why put all your gear in only one crack, behind a loose-ish looking block, especially with plenty of cordelette and other nearby cracks?
Why skip ever testing that same loose-ish block with a good whack/tug/kick/etc?
And if you're so sure that block is good, why bother setting four pieces, if at a certain point speed becomes safety?

I guess I would say, sure, the anchor looks fine, straight out th'book. The real learning opportunity is how to avoid big-picture gumby mistakes that most people don't even realize they are making.

When I picked up my first anchoring book, I was looking for a one-size-fits-all anchoring system that I could memorize and call it good. The problem is, it doesn't exist. Cordelettes are appropriate for some situations, not for others. Same with static-equalizing setups, same with just about every climbing/anchoring technique. Having one in the bag is great, but you need to know why it works - and when it won't. If you don't know that, all the posts on mountainproject won't keep you out tha grave.

Don't think I'm hating. I would fall on that anchor. It looked ok. But you can do better than six minutes to place four pieces behind one maybe-loose block just below a better station while wearing a helmet cam. If you want to learn bomber anchor setups, start with any of Leubben's or Long's books on anchoring, and leave youtube (aka noobtoob) for laughs.

1) This knot is bomber. Btw, it's a figure 8, not a clove hitch
2) Definitely
3) Yes. The "top shelf" (above the knot) is perfectly safe but make sure you clip through each loop. That way, if any one piece blows, you have back-up

Some comments:

A) The climber does not clip into a piece while building the anchor. Yes... he's on a cushy ledge but it's still good practice to make yourself safe while anchor building
B) The climber could have diversified his pro. He deploys four pieces but all into the same feature. If this feature turns out to be weak in some way, then the entire system is compromised. There looks to be opportunities to diversify the protection scheme to alternative features

M LaViolette Jr. wrote:I think it's kind of a pain in the sack dealing with the double fisherman's knot in the cordellete, so instead of clipping the first piece tie a clove hitch in the cord and cinch it right up near the biner and it will help to keep it out of the way.

like it x2

all lockers should always screw downward so as not to "screw up" when possible. It is a safer practice to let the locking mechanism have gravity on its side in the event that the rope, rock or climber somehow loosen the locking gate (climber in video "screwed up"). Also, there is definitely trees and other great features only another 10 to 15 feet above and out from the climber and this would be a much better place to build an anchor simply because it is level ground, big fat and healthy trees are plentiful and there is no need to share any ledge space with the second. all in all though, it looked good. clove hitch the cord knot at the first piece so as to avoid hassling with it while equalizing the anchor.

Agree with most of what's been said here. This hero vid is an excellent learning opportunity. I found it difficult to watch. It looks like someone made a video of themselves "practicing" anchor building at the top of a cliff rather than at the bottom of it.

The "knot" at 2:09 is not one I'm familiar with. It looks like several neatly dressed granny knots to me. But I could be wrong. Anyone else use this method of joining two ends?

Can't really tell for sure but it looks like he could have used that 40ft of cord to sling the huge block a time or two and called it done.

Or maybe just plug a cam in and extend it before scrambling up another 5ft and plopping your ass down behind the block in a bomber stance and yelling off belay. Pulling rope and attaching a belay device to your harness (if things like hip belays bother you) should take another 30 or so seconds.

Thanks for the replies, folks.

It may seem text book, but many anchor-building instructions simply stop after the anchor is finished. They don't tell you where to clip in (never heard of the 'shelf' before), what the second should do, and how to avoid becoming cluttered (and, thus, potentially dangerous).

I'm all for the 'efficient & simple' methods.

Thanks again.

The commentary in this thread is great. As a relatively new climber who has done a lot of reading, I watched the video and could immediately answer all the OP's questions. But it's the discussion of:

- the alternatives (not HOW but WHERE/WHY to build an anchor)
- the climber's efficiency
- things the climber DIDN'T do

that you can't get from a book.

Thanks!

JSH wrote:0) 1b) clip/anchor in yourself with a second connection. You might swap rope ends, reconfigure the belay, restack the rope, etc., and a second connection the anchor makes it a lot less likely that you'll accidentally unclip entirely.

@JSH: Could you give an example in this video? A sling clipped from your harness to the shelf? Or to something else? Would you do the same thing if you were building an anchor with just the rope and clove hitches (see video below for example of what I'm talking about)?

Thanks!

climbinglife.com/rock-ancho…
(approx. 2:30 for the completed anchor)

@Yarp - the knot looks like an EDK backed up with an EDK.

Does anyone else use that with cord? I always use the double fisherman on cord.

Tyler Wick wrote:@Yarp - the knot looks like an EDK backed up with an EDK. Does anyone else use that with cord? I always use the double fisherman on cord.

Yup.
An overhand with a sufficient tail is fine.
No additional overhand backup necessary.

Flat fisherman works, too and is easier to untie than a fisherman.

It's my understanding that an overhand knot (EDK) is OK for tying the ends of a cordelette together. Easier to untie than a double fisherman, if you find yourself untying your cordelette often. Leave a lot of tail for an overhand. Some people "stack" two overhands, back to back.

Tyler Wick wrote:@Yarp - the knot looks like an EDK backed up with an EDK. Does anyone else use that with cord? I always use the double fisherman on cord.

I never carry a cordalette, but if I do, I use an EDK sans the backup. It is much easier to adjust the length if you need to.

JohnWesely wrote: I never carry a cordalette, but if I do, I use an EDK sans the backup. It is much easier to adjust the length if you need to.

I always use the double fishermans and just keep it tied. If you want to make it shorter just tie a overhand/figure 8 on a bight and now the loop of available cord is shorter. Much easier than tieing/untieing the EDK.