Does anyone have any comments on the Cassin X-Gyro Lanyard vs the BD Spinner Leash for tethering your tools for leashless ice climbing. I am new to leashless climbing but in come situations where you want to be sure not to drop your tools, these products sound useful. Both are rated to 2kn.
So maybe I am confused here but you are asking about leashes for leashless ice climbing?
To avoid confusion, I personally like to refer to products such as the X-gyro and spinner as tethers (edit: or umbilicals) that are very different than leashes.
To the OP - I have no experience with the X-gyro but I have used a BD spinner on a couple occasions just to get a feel for it. Definitely took a little getting used to but I think I would definitely use one on an alpine climb/other scenario where I absolutely do not want to drop a tool. (FYI I don't like climbing with leashes in any context).
The Blue Ice are the simplest and strongest. They are designed so that you can girth hitch all attachment points (belay loop and each axe) instead of needing carabiners. I would strongly recommend using Metolius FS Mini biners on the axe ends though - it doesn't really effect your swing and makes it way easier to fix your umbilicals when they get all twisted up.
Note that you can't use biners to clip in to the full strength attachment points on Nomics or Ergos - the hole is in the middle of the handle. However, you can use a dremel and enlarge a hole in the pommel and add your own cord loops as clip in points.
Home made or commercial umbilicals will fail at the knot or on the sewing or the webbing first. The biners (any of them) or swivel will likely not fail because the webbing will only accept such low over all weight loads. BD's biner has a well earned reputation for loosing the tool. Grivel changed to a locker just for that reason season's before BD's version was even available. The 4mm cord (listed @ 1200#) in the BD comment is what I have used in the past to tie on my Nomics. I no longer do that but tie in with a girth hitch to a Boa leash because I do use my tools as my primary personal belay when the umbilicals are attached.
If you are using your umbilicals for a self belay pays to be aware of the actual strength of your system. Even the strongest of the commercial umbilicals (The Blue Ice Boa) still only pull tests @ 550 daN or 1236 #. No one else committing to over 800 lbs. To be "safe" you really need to get over 2000#.
Black Diamond said:
"Just tested this to 800lbs (single leg). No damage to the 4mm cord or our steel clip (production quality with more tumbling to the part); the bungee webbing breaks first. Then pull tested our steel biner clipped to 5mm cord, this went to 1600lbs before the cord broke."
Bottom line? If you are just trying to keep your tools attached to your body almost anything will work. If you are using them to self belay even a minor slip onto your umbilicals on steep ground will likely blow your umbilical system apart and it will FAIL as a belay.
People have been lucky, myself included, catching a slip that loaded the umbilical system.
Having half a brain is more important than umbilicals :) You still need to worry more about the climbing and tool placement than your inability to keep the umbilical lines straight. That comes with just a little for thought and practice.
So does anyone have any thoughts regarding the OP's question? Cassin X-Gyro Leash vs. BD Spinner Leash.
Tried the BD Spinner the other day. Seemed to work well enough. The spinner of course prevents the tethers from twisting around each other. The tethers themselves can twist, but that really doesn't affect the performance. The Gyro fixes that small issue, which I suppose could be worth the extra 10 bucks.
But how much does it weigh compared the BD? I don't actually know. Spec is 120g for the BD and 146 - 160g for the Cassin. Does anyone know if that includes the biners or not? I doubt it. But if so, I'd say get the Cassin for sure, out of those two.
But the The Blue Ice Boa, at 50g and rated stronger than the others, seems like the best option. No spinner or anything, but I see this as a small problem. Dane - The umbilicals twisting around each other isn't annoying? I'm hoping you still have some in stock.
Ignoring all the negative posts and drift from the subject. Ive messed around with both and find the X-Gyro pretty cool. I would assume that you are concerned about dropping an axe. If this is the case making your own is not so difficult and very cheap. All the best.
I made my own Blue Ice style leashes with 1/2" webbing and elastic cord. The key is to tie off the elastic cord so that the loops going to the tools are just webbing, no elastic inside. Then you can thread the webbing through the hole in the handles and loop it around the pommel somewhere. It's secure, easy to take off or put back on whenever you want. With gloves on you can't even tell that there is any material there.
I had a closer look, and if you don't include the 2x Nano 23 biners, the X-Gyro is indeed lighter than the BD Spinner, ~110g vs. ~120g. And of course you can girth-hitch it to your tools, without the biners. So considering also that it comes with those 2 biners for only $10 more, I'd say that makes it superior, unless you worry about the ball-and-socket joints failing over time.
Unless you prefer true simplicity and/or a higher rating, in which case get the Blue Ice or make your own.
Never tried the Blue Ice. I do have BD Spinner and home made version.
The spinner works well enough that when I'm leading. It doesn't become a tangled mess. Following a route sometimes it's a pain because the knot and rope tangle up with the spinner leash.
Elastic material works well, but should be a longer. If you are high on the ape index, you might want to extend the leash tie in.
The leash is a tangled mess after switch tools on a climb when leading. Following is definitely more pain as well.
My biggest complain about home made version is that the wedding tend to soak up water much much faster than BD version. My home made version got wet and frozen too easily for me to use it for ice climbing.
"My biggest complain about home made version is that the wedding tend to soak up water much much faster than BD version. My home made version got wet and frozen too easily for me to use it for ice climbing. "
There is a reason for the cost of all the commercial versions. It is not the typical nylon they are using as you have discovered. And some of it depending on where it is made..say Italy or France as an example is a lot better than say, China. My impression anyway from using them all and making my own.
On topic of umbilicals, my tools do not have a hole in the spike to accommodate them, what do people do in this situation? Considered dremeling a small hole an running small diameter cord through. Tools are Grivel takkoons.