carrying rope 2

When doing a route that requires a double rope rappel; what do u find is the easiest/ most convenient way to bring the second rope up? Tied on like a backpack, in a pack, over the shoulder, climb with both tied to the harness? Wondering what people with more experience find to be the best way.

Depends the rope diameter for the second rope. If you have a tag line (<7mm), then you can carry it. If you use regular climbing rope, then tied into both.

this works for me

- tie the rope to a locker and clip it to the back of the leader's harness ... when doing full length pitches its a biatch IMO to have 15+ lbs dangling between yr legs, i prefer some of it to dangle from my rear loop ... ive also found that having it on the rear loops keeps a bit more of the rope off the rock sometimes with less resulting drag

- occasionally on traversing pitches, clip an extra draw on a piece/bolt to keep the trailing rope from dangling too much or getting caught

- dont tie the second into the spare rope as the moment the leader gets up he will pull and flake the entire trailing rope into a sling ... its then all set for either a lead swap or block lead

whichever method you use, the key is neatness and practice so that it runs smooth like butter ;)

Thanks guys. I haven't used a smaller diameter static line (tag line) before; just 9mm+ ropes--tied together for the double rope rappel. You are tying the 7mm to the 9.8mm (for example) and rapping off both different diamters? No issue with the size difference, or static vs dynamic ropes on the rappel?

Sorry if this is a really basic question, just haven't done it before. I like the idea of saving the weight by using the 7mm.

Thanks,

Mike

i use a 8mm half rope as the trailing rope and a 9.5mm as my main ... i just tie the 2 with an EDK ...

the reason i would rather have a 8mm half for the trailing is that there is a not insignificant chance that your rope can get stuck on rap especially with crack climbs ... at worst i can lead up on the half rope if needed ... your ATC will slip more on the smaller rope, you can simply use a prussik if yr worried

if you get a static line make sure you get it ~10% longer than the main to account for rope stretch and the tendency for the rope to slip more on the thinner line

I find it most comfortable and easiest to exchange by tossing the rope into an ultralight pack (I use a Marmot Kompressor). Trailing gets annoying (on wandering pitches) and the second should be the mule anyways.
Just this weekend I flaked it into the pack, tied off the end and after joining our ropes for the rap, tossed the pack. It worked great as a clean, precise rope toss; un-flaking easily despite being tightly stuffed into the pack.

One of many options:
Lead with a skinny single (Beal Joker 9.1)
Carry super skinny twin in the pack (tendon master 7.8)

With 50m ropes, which are actually useful over here, this is a light setup that allows for some redundancy. EDK, pull either side, no problems.

Just use double ropes - it has it's advantages for rock as well as ice climbing ;) I guess that's just the norm here in the UK so I've got used to it

Tag lines can be great but be sure to have someone show you how to rap properly with them (it's often called a Reepschnur Rappel, I believe). It's very, very important to back up the system properly when using this system.

Other note is to consider the type of raps you are doing. If there is a high chance of the rope getting stuck when you pull it down, I'd stick with a double-rope system (as you don't want to be using a tag line to climb back up the rock to free the stuck rope). If the raps are clean, the tag line can be a nice way to save a few pounds.

Who else but the British lug two 50m ropes up to a 45-foot crag? Love it.

I carry a 7.5 mm x 60 m Mammut Twilight in a BD Bullet pack. Second carrys the pack. There's enough room left over to stuff a liter of water, couple of bars and windshirts.

Zirkel wrote:I carry a 7.5 mm x 60 m Mammut Twilight in a BD Bullet pack. Second carrys the pack. There's enough room left over to stuff a liter of water, couple of bars and windshirts.

Same here. 8mm tag line in a BD Bullet Pack.

Previous poster says "always pull the thinner rope". Why? I alternate, threading the one I am pulling through the rings to expedite the process. Am I missing something? Only reason I see easier to pull tag line is it is static and you dont have stretch.

Never really had any issue tying the two together. 10.2 climbing rope and 8 tag line. EDK or double fisherman.

NCTRAD wrote:Previous poster says "always pull the thinner rope". Why? I alternate, threading the one I am pulling through the rings to expedite the process. Am I missing something? Only reason I see easier to pull tag line is it is static and you dont have stretch. Never really had any issue tying the two together. 10.2 climbing rope and 8 tag line. EDK or double fisherman.

I usually pull the thinner one because there is less chance for it to get tangled up this way.
If you pull the fat rope, half of the skinny rope will come flying down and is more likely to get to wrap around flakes and shrubbery. Been there done that.

Pulling a skinny rope that isn't truly static can absolutely suck though, so for really straightforward raps with little chance of getting anything stuck you may wish to just chance it and pull the fat rope.

Appreciate the replies. I think I'll wait until my next guided trip to learn the Reepschnur Rappel. Using an 8mm twin/half tied with an EDK and running both through the ATC seems like the best rapping option for me right now.

NCTRAD wrote: Same here. 8mm tag line in a BD Bullet Pack. Previous poster says "always pull the thinner rope". Why? I alternate, threading the one I am pulling through the rings to expedite the process. Am I missing something? Only reason I see easier to pull tag line is it is static and you dont have stretch. Never really had any issue tying the two together. 10.2 climbing rope and 8 tag line. EDK or double fisherman.

The skinny rope provides less friction and will move through the device faster. This can cause the knot to creep as you rap and your ends to become uneven. Pulling the skinny rope will place the knot on the side such that the knot will have to pull through the anchor in order for the rope to creep like that. If this is a real concern with the combination that you are using, IMO it is a better idea to use a block of some sort (just as you would if rapping with a Grigri) and not rely on the knot not being able to pull through the anchor. Especially if using a pull cord so skinny that it is essentially not weight bearing.

Good article on the Reepschnur Rappel. Not sure why you would want to just rap one of the cords, unless you really like using a Cinch or Grigri to rap single lines. I dont like the idea of the rings holding back the knot, but the backup suggested in this article would be mandatory for me. Worth your time to read.

rockandice.com/articles/how…

NCTRAD wrote: Good article on the Reepschnur Rappel. Not sure why you would want to just rap one of the cords, unless you really like using a Cinch or Grigri to rap single lines. I dont like the idea of the rings holding back the knot, but the backup suggested in this article would be mandatory for me. Worth your time to read. rockandice.com/articles/how…

.

If the pull rope is skinny enough compared to the primary line, you are in effect rapping on a single line anyway whether you thread it through your device or not. The primary line will be supporting most all of your weight as compared to the pull line. I agree that a Reepschnur type block is a very good idea and to not rely on the inability of the knot to pull through the rings

Locker wrote:"I usually pull the thinner one because there is less chance for it to get tangled up this way.". SIDE NOTE: That AIN'T the reason for pulling the skinny one...

Now I'm interested. Would you also tell us WHAT the reason is? It surely has the disadvantage that in case the rope gets stuck half way, you cannot lead up on the tag line.

Matthias Lang wrote: Now I'm interested. Would you also tell us WHAT the reason is? It surely has the disadvantage that in case the rope gets stuck half way, you cannot lead up on the tag line.

Csproul just explained the most important reason a couple posts up.

nbrown wrote: Csproul just explained the most important reason a couple posts up.

Thanks, guess I didn't read it carefully enough.

Nick Russell wrote:Just use double ropes - it has it's advantages for rock as well as ice climbing ;) I guess that's just the norm here in the UK so I've got used to it

+1