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Careful driving toward and away from Vedauwoo/ BS traffic stops
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Aug 5, 2014
I didn't read the whole thread, so someone may have posted this.

In regards to pretty much everything a cop asks you, you ask in return: Is that a lawful order, or a request?

It puts the cop on high alert though, since that's the kind of question very few people ask. And those that do ask are either know about the law or are breaking it. Most don't want to risk their job and they will usually play by the rules.

My experience with that question comes from open carrying. A cop would come up, ask me to see if the gun was loaded. I would say " is that a lawful order or request" the cop would usually respond "Request first, then an order." That's when you click the snap on the holster, and let them reach for the gun. Same deal in a car, except that you have to let them know when they pull you over that you have a pistol strapped to you.

Don't let them fuck with you. Always ask, and never give them any information you don't have to. E.g. - Where you headed tonight? "That's private information officer." Or you can be more formal and plead the 5th. You should read your states laws fully at least once. You would be very surprised at what you should be doing and what you don't have to do at all.
Eliot Augusto
From Boulder, CO
Joined Dec 29, 2013
45 points
Aug 5, 2014
Something of a threadjack, and I apologize for it but its been bugging me...
Maybe I just lived in Laramie for too long and never had to commute to Vedauwoo from Foco, but Hermosa road connects at Tie Siding, right? According to google maps, while its physically shorter, its lower speed limit means that you simply can't go as fast as taking I-80 from Vedauwoo to Cheyenne or Laramie, then taking I-25 or US 287 (respectively) from there.

Not defending the cops, just wondering if they're not just profiling "greenies", but also out-of-state plates on what's ostensibly a backroad that is much slower than either big road its meant to avoid. If I were a cop, my scenario-I-can-twist-into-probable-cause sense would ping pretty loud over that. Don't make it right, and there's better, more valid advice in this thread than "don't take the backroads", just wondering if that contributed to you getting the sherrif's welcoming party.
Brian Scoggins
From Boise, ID
Joined Mar 12, 2002
1,120 points
Aug 5, 2014
Eliot Augusto wrote:
Same deal in a car, except that you have to let them know when they pull you over that you have a pistol strapped to you.


Since your profile says you live in Colorado, you do not have to let them know you are carrying if pulled over. You only have to let them know if they ask.
Mark Derham
From Lakewood, CO
Joined Apr 6, 2012
18 points
Aug 6, 2014
John Sherman
Scott Phil wrote:
When I was in my 20s I got pulled by the highway patrol for going only about 5 miles over the limit. The HP asked a lot of leading questions. I answered as best I could hoping that I might still get out of a ticket. Then out of the blue he said that he noticed that it had taken me awhile to pull over and asked if he could "check my brakes." Still hoping to avoid a ticket I said yes. Once in the car he tapped the brake pedal once and then proceeded to search the car! The car was clean and I got away with just a warning, but learned a valuable lesson.



WOW, that's one of those things that is so ridiculous, you don't want to believe, but at the same time is too farfetched to be made up. I think I would have fallen for that today had I not read that... Sorry that happened to you, a lesson for the future.
Tom Sherman
From Bristol, RI
Joined Feb 23, 2013
246 points
Aug 6, 2014
At the Harry Daley Base, Yosemite Valley.
Get real y'all: democracynow.org/2014/8/5/new_... Kalil Oldham
From Brooklyn, NY
Joined Aug 20, 2006
70 points
Aug 6, 2014
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "...
goatboy wrote:
Pro tip: If you must indulge, switch to hash oil or just regular hash. It doesn't smell like pot, has a more aromatic smell that officers do not seem to detect. I got pulled over outside Buffalo WY going 8mph over the limit after just hitting my onesie and the cop didn't even notice the smell. I've run into other cops after smoking hash, close quarters like the gym, at stores, even at a volunteer raffle with dozens of officers and not one gave me any grief.

"Pro-tip"?
I guess!
The mind wanders here. Just how often do you have to be stoned, and how often do you have to be getting pulled over to have a significant amount of experience with talking to cops so recently after toking?

Please stop driving like that. As for what you do when walking- I couldn't care less.
Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Joined Jan 1, 2001
23,675 points
Aug 6, 2014
Brian Scoggins wrote:
Maybe I just lived in Laramie for too long and never had to commute to Vedauwoo from Foco, but Hermosa road connects at Tie Siding, right? According to google maps, while its physically shorter, its lower speed limit means that you simply can't go as fast as taking I-80 from Vedauwoo to Cheyenne or Laramie, then taking I-25 or US 287 (respectively) from there.


I don't know what the speed limit is, but taking Hermosa road at a comfortable speed is way faster than Google says it is. They probably calculate the time using 20mph or something. From my house both routes take about the same amount of time but 287 is a much nicer drive. If you live on the north or west sides of town then 287 is probably faster, too. Mind you this is only really the case when Hermosa in in good shape. Once it turns into washboard, I stick to I-75/80 and save my suspension.
Ian Stewart
Joined May 17, 2010
166 points
Aug 6, 2014
David Sahalie wrote:
page 3 before a self righteous Tony B rant


I wouldn't consider a request for people to not drive under the influence of drugs to be a "self righteous rant"...
Ian Stewart
Joined May 17, 2010
166 points
Aug 6, 2014
Eliot Augusto wrote:
My experience with that question comes from open carrying. A cop would come up, ask me to see if the gun was loaded. I would say " is that a lawful order or request" the cop would usually respond "Request first, then an order." That's when you click the snap on the holster, and let them reach for the gun. Same deal in a car, except that you have to let them know when they pull you over that you have a pistol strapped to you. Don't let them fuck with you. Always ask, and never give them any information you don't have to. E.g. - Where you headed tonight? "That's private information officer." Or you can be more formal and plead the 5th. You should read your states laws fully at least once. You would be very surprised at what you should be doing and what you don't have to do at all.


That's sounds like great advice. I think I've seen the first part before in a book titled "how to get shot by the police for dummies".

Second part is a great way to talk yourself into a ticket or worse.

Do you seriously wonder why the cops give you a hard time?
Funny, I have never had any difficulties and I'm polite and respectful, coincident?
javd
From East Brookfield MA
Joined Jul 16, 2012
105 points
Aug 6, 2014
Orgasm Direct, Devil's Lake, 5.11a  c. 2008
David Sahalie wrote:
Depends on how high one is. I regularly drive a wee bit high on mostly deserted roads... Like all of wyoming and most of the west. Completely blazed and border line tripping in traffic, not so good.


Research seems to indicate that even a small amount of marijuana intoxication has significant effects on a driver's ability to respond quickly to unanticipated events. It also suggests that people driving high significantly underestimate their level of impairment. Which is funny because the my understanding is that conventional wisdom states that high drivers go really slowly because they're overestimating their level of impairment.

Not to say it can't be done safely, but I think subjective assessments are the least reliable method to evaluate.
Dylan B.
Joined Mar 31, 2006
487 points
Aug 6, 2014
black nasty
Let's get back to the real thread...

The "law" not following the "law"


If any of you have ever been wrongfully harassed with you would probably understand a bit more why people:
Ask request or order.
Don't talk.
Etc...

It only takes one time to not trust them any longer!
And like some said, it happens all the time, all over the USofA.
Cor
Joined Mar 6, 2006
1,175 points
Aug 6, 2014
Orgasm Direct, Devil's Lake, 5.11a  c. 2008


A study published in a peer reviewed journal:

bmj.com/content/344/bmj.e536

A media summary:

theatlantic.com/health/archive...
Dylan B.
Joined Mar 31, 2006
487 points
Aug 6, 2014
Orgasm Direct, Devil's Lake, 5.11a  c. 2008
Look, I'm not arguing that any degree of intoxication impairs the ability to drive so severely that there needs to be a blanket prohibition. Cearly, some people who are mildly high can drive better than some people who are stone cold sober.

What I'm saying is that people who are high overestimate their ability to drive safely and are not the best judge of whether it is safe to drive or not. Not a controversial claim, and not a proscription for any particular policy. Just a data point.
Dylan B.
Joined Mar 31, 2006
487 points
Aug 6, 2014
I'm curious if anyone on here know the penalties for being caught with a small amount of weed in Utah and/or Wyoming. Just simple possession. Not driving stoned. Just possession in the vehicle of a small amount of pot. Russell Holcomb
From Boulder, Colorado
Joined Nov 12, 2007
17 points
Administrator
Aug 6, 2014
A Very Not Snowy Christmas...
Russell Holcomb wrote:
I'm curious if anyone on here know the penalties for being caught with a small amount of weed in Utah and/or Wyoming. Just simple possession. Not driving stoned. Just possession in the vehicle of a small amount of pot.


google is your friend...
Morgan Patterson
Joined Oct 13, 2009
8,423 points
Aug 6, 2014
uintas
In Utah its a misdemeanor if under an OZ I believe. If you are in a small town they'll fine you upwards of 1000$, in SLC the fines are usually only several hundred. Know because a piece of shit cop in Kanab pulled one over on me... JRohde
From seattle, washington
Joined Jun 26, 2010
12 points
Aug 6, 2014
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "...
David Sahalie wrote:
page 3 before a self righteous Tony B rant Tune in for how cool he is cuz he has done it all, but not anymore, grew up and such. Oh, and he is drug counselor, so he really knows stuff like Joan knows nursing.

Wheras you've made 6 posts starting on P2?
I like to bring out the dick in my detractors. And it appears that I just have.

If you like the idea of people lighting up and getting behind the wheel right away, "nice..." I hope you don't kill anyone or get killed.
I, for one, have seen enough lives ruined. It's been liquor, for the most part, on the road, but the studies are the same. Suggesting texting is worse isn't a great excuse.

David Sahalie wrote:
Depends on how high one is. I regularly drive a wee bit high on mostly deserted roads... Like all of wyoming and most of the west.

Speaking of self righteous...
Hey - let me know where you are and your plates, eh? I can arrange to have someone come talk to you about that if you'd like.
Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Joined Jan 1, 2001
23,675 points
Administrator
Aug 6, 2014
A Very Not Snowy Christmas...
Unfortunately, I only get in accidents when I'm sober. Maybe its just that I spend most my time behind a wheel no sober... idk. Morgan Patterson
Joined Oct 13, 2009
8,423 points
Aug 6, 2014
Tour Ronde North Face
Some good tips here:

Kai Larson
From Sandy, Utah
Joined Jan 6, 2006
261 points
Aug 6, 2014
God! Has anyone tried that General Tso's chicken?? doug rouse
From Denver, CO.
Joined Apr 15, 2008
733 points
Aug 6, 2014
Me again!
Tony B wrote:
I like to bring out the dick in my detractors. I can arrange to have someone come talk to you about that if you'd like.



Once he was just a know it all who was a bit misguided.


Now,he has graduated to grandstanding creeper who takes the law into his own hands, classic.


Working with crack heads has resulted in one of the most biased perspective on MP. Not a perspective based on personal experience or objective studies, but one based on fear and authority. And if you challenge his authority, he's gonna send someone to "talk to you" all right! (folks, it's like he's straight out of Goodfellas, watch out.)

The Joan of drug councilors indeed!



But more to the point:


How many others have altered their climbing plans to avoid states like UT or WY?



J Q
Joined Mar 11, 2012
58 points
Aug 6, 2014
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "...
J Q wrote:
Now,he has graduated to grandstanding creeper who takes the law into his own hands, classic. Not a perspective based on personal experience or objective studies, but one based on fear and authority. And if you challenge his authority, he's gonna send someone to "talk to you" all right!

As I said before: "I like to bring out the dick in my detractors."
Call this success #2.

I read the links that were posted & am pretty familiar with the issue already, having been an advocate for drug law reform for some time.
I think current limits in CO and WA need revised upwards.
But stoners don't help with that. They hurt the cause. Ever see one testify in a committee hearing? I have...
"There goes our support in the legislature..."

It is driving on the stuff that is going to get it or keep it banned.
People that do it and brag about it are the worst- they don't even have to cause an accident to create a problem for those who keep it recreational or medical.
So I'll sure offer them the opportunity to turn themselves in if they think it is something that they want to do. How is that taking the law into my own hands?

Also... I'm a drug counselor now? Tell me more about myself, please... I'd like to know more!
You've always been an troll. Not much to graduate to from there. That's kinda sad.
Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Joined Jan 1, 2001
23,675 points
Aug 6, 2014
Tony B wrote:
"Pro-tip"? I guess! The mind wanders here. Just how often do you have to be stoned, and how often do you have to be getting pulled over to have a significant amount of experience with talking to cops so recently after toking? Please stop driving like that. As for what you do when walking- I couldn't care less.


I rarely drive stoned. Did you read the rest of the post?
Most of the encounters were in daily life out and about town.
I only referenced the driving encounter since it was my first experience with hash and dealing with an officer.
Your reading comprehension is quite poor for a non smoker.
goatboy
From Nederland, CO
Joined Jan 15, 2008
32 points
Aug 6, 2014
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "...
goatboy wrote:
I rarely drive stoned. Did you read the rest of the post? Most of the encounters were in daily life out and about town. I only referenced the driving encounter since it was my first experience with hash and dealing with an officer. Your reading comprehension is quite poor for a non smoker.

Yeah, I read the whole post. As for reading comprehension... I do OK. When you admit (profess) to driving stoned on an occasion, can you claim surprise at someone for saying: "Please stop driving like that." One cen gerneally presume that if you are stoned a lot, and admit to being pulled over for it once, that it is not the one and only time you drove like that.
Even if claimed "rarely" later, which if said in present tense is more than once, and not declared in the past... it would imply that you intend to do it again. So where was my misperception? My unreasonableness? In asking that people drive sober?

Seems reasonable to me. I guess YMMV, but I didn't think it was too out of line.

I got nothing against drug use, medical or recreational. I've been fighting for legalization for decades. That's why I said "As for what you do when walking- I couldn't care less."
And I genuinely couldn't, so long as you don't pass out in the streets or appear a village idiot making reasonable people look bad, which you don't give any indication of doing, you seem like you are aware of your situation. Some people are, some are not.

Thanks, regardless, for the relatively civil discourse.
Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Joined Jan 1, 2001
23,675 points
Aug 6, 2014
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "...
David Sahalie wrote:
Thing is, as much as I smoke, Ill test as having THC in my blood even if I havent smoked that day, or even that week.

That's one of the reasons why the current limits need changed. Unfortunately the current methods don't reasonably measure intoxication...

David Sahalie wrote:
So, my candor in illustrating what many climbers do: smoke while on the road, is hindering drug reform? Ok, Ill keep quiet about the reality I have lived weekly for 20 years.

Quiet, discrete, braggadocio, martyrdom, and hurting the cause all lie on a spectrum that is not entirely clear to everyone.
If you want to see what drug reform looks like at a legislative level, use google/Cspan, or go to a committee hearing for a bill. It is open to the public. Or just listen to the adds from the other side.
Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Joined Jan 1, 2001
23,675 points


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