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Can't choose a bivi bag for the Alps

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Febs · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 5

Believe me, I spent hours searching for reviews, threads, and watching videos, and I am still so undecided about what bivy bag to buy.

Probably that's also because I never used any bivy, I only slept in tents so far, so I really am unexperienced.

I hope you can shed some light on me.

I'd like to get something that would allow me to sleep comfy and dry while not suffocating (I read that some bags do require you to leave the zipper open) in case of rain.
I guess I should search for something with some room inside so to be able to dress and undress (and pack the down sleeping bag) without leaving the bag in case it's raining in the morning, and to be able to keep the backpack inside without reducing the space for the down sleeping bag (I want it to be able to expand as much as possible so to use all of its thermal insulance).
It should be resistant and last for some time.

This should weight no more than 600 grams (I already own a one person tent that's about 1kg and I see no purpose in using a bivy if it weights almost about as that).

Less important, but nice features that I'd like to find:

  • a bug net to be able to use it in warmer climates as well
  • not requiring much care (but if I have to heavily take care of it after each usage to keep its feature I will of course do it as soon as I get home no matter how tired I am).

Provided that it's going to last, I can spend some big money on such a piece of equipment.

Thanks all for your help.
Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,203

I like the BD/Bibler hooped bivy - but without the hoop:

blackdiamondequipment.com/e…

I have been using one for many years now and it is holding up well. They make a minimalist one as well that is 1/3 the weight.

Max Forbes · · Colorado · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 108

I'm not sure if there's any real validity to saving 400 grams. I've been using a bivvy for a while and it kinda sucks. Usually amounts to soggy sleepless nights and a lot of claustrophobia. Definietly recommend actually getting into one before you buy it. That being said Integral Designs makes some seriously high quality, lightweight, rugged alpine bivvys and I would recommend checking out there product line.

Febs · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 5
Max Forbes wrote:I'm not sure if there's any real validity to saving 400 grams. I've been using a bivvy for a while and it kinda sucks. Usually amounts to soggy sleepless nights and a lot of claustrophobia. Definietly recommend actually getting into one before you buy it. That being said Integral Designs makes some seriously high quality, lightweight, rugged alpine bivvys and I would recommend checking out there product line.
Well, it's also a matter of being able to set up a bivy when it is really hard to find a spot - this is the idea, at least. To set up a tent requires a bit of space and I feel like - I could be wrong - with a bivy bag I could just use the very minimum required for my own self.
Also, 600 grams is actually the very highest limit, I have seen several bags that are 300 grams or less... but of course I'm unsure about their features.
Last, I also actually like the idea, when the weather is fine, of sleeping with my eyes under the very sky. Despite being in a tent allows you to be intimate with the wilderness way more than staying in any hut (there are plenty here on the alps, and I don't like 'em), a tent is still a tiny filter between your senses and the rest of the beautiful nature. OK, I am digressing. Sorry. :D
Max Forbes · · Colorado · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 108

I agree that they are definietly the way to go on nice nights, however, my resentment is the nights wheh the weather actually does go to shit. It's really something that varies a lot person to person

Alex McIntyre · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 546

I'm not sure I've ever seen a bivy sac that I would be able to change clothes in or store a pack in. My OR Highland bivy has served me well over the last few years, but it is definitely not something I have a ton of extra room in.

jktinst · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 55

A lot of my points got raised as I wrote this.

Down sleeping bags, bivy bags and rain don’t mix well. The hooped bivys, even the roomier ones, are really just meant to keep the fabric off your face, allow you to do a bit of reading and make the bivy a bit less claustrophobic. Plus they jack up the weight to pretty close to that of your tent. Getting dressed inside a bivy is always going to involve a lot of contorsion and getting in and out in rainy conditions is always going to get the sleeping bag somewhat wet. You can wriggle, push, pull and kick the sleeping bag to the bottom of the bivy bag before opening it but you can’t prevent some rain and runoff from getting inside as you get in or out.

I’ve used a TNF hoopless. 100% Gtex bivy on and off for a number of years (they stopped manufacturing it years ago). I keep looking for a small tarp that would add no more than about 100-150g to the bivy’s 600g and that could be strung up between hiking poles and/or branches (and/or pros over a bivy ledge) to add the possibility of getting in and out and getting dressed without getting the bags wet but it seems that the only option would be to make my own.

I don’t own a UL one-person tent but if I did and had to camp for more than one or two nights and in potentially rainy conditions, that is definitely what I would take instead of a bivy, unless, of course, it absolutely had to double as a shelter for emergency and/or planned use on alpine routes. By the time you’ve put down your pack, boots, etc. around your bivy I can’t imagine that your footprint will be much smaller than the tent. Regarding the “communing with nature”, you’ll find that having the bivy’s fabric rustle around your head is not so great, compared to a nice, taut tent fabric. Tents usually have all sorts of options (leaving doors open, fly off, etc.) that let you see the stars and enjoy that sleeping outside feeling when the weather is dry while retaining full rain protection if (when) needed.

Ashort · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 56

How do you really plan on using this, and is it necessary? Is this for emergency bivy on route? Snow?

I've spent some times in the alps, and when not staying in huts I just slept under a tarp supported by my trekking poles. The huts are strategically placed so that you never really have to camp out.

Why not just stay in the huts and carry your 1kg tent for when you want to camp out? If you are really trying to cut weight then get a light tarp.

Kai Larson · · Sandy, UT · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 436

I'm not sure you really want a bivi bag.

I think you may be better served with a bothy bag.

Here is the one I would recommend:

backcountry.com/rab-silboth…

A bothy bag such as this one is light. I have this 4 person model, and it weighs only 11.7 ounces.

Unlike a bivi bag, the bothy can accomodate multiple people, and there is room inside to do things, like change clothing, eat, talk, etc.

The 4 person bothy that is linked above will accommodate 2 people laying down, so you can sleep if needed, and up to 4 people sitting up, if you just need to shelter in place for a while.

I take a bothy bag with me on alpine climbs and backcountry ski trips. I have used a bothy for lunch stops in stormy conditions, as an emergency shelter on a stormy night when we had no tent, as a temporary haven from wind and cold while on a long alpine rock climb, and as a rain shelter during a long thunderstorm.

Here is a review of the 2 man version: alpineteam.co.nz/2014/rab-s…

Here's a review of a custom bothy from Wild Things:

larsonweb.com/shelter/id8.html

If you are not taking a tent, then I really think that a bothy bag is the logical solution.

A few more links:

mak57.blogspot.com/2010/12/…

callummaclellan.zenfolio.co…

stevenfallon.blogspot.com/2…

Febs · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 5
Ashort wrote:How do you really plan on using this, and is it necessary? Is this for emergency bivy on route? Snow? I've spent some times in the alps, and when not staying in huts I just slept under a tarp supported by my trekking poles. The huts are strategically placed so that you never really have to camp out. Why not just stay in the huts and carry your 1kg tent for when you want to camp out? If you are really trying to cut weight then get a light tarp.
I do really plan to use this, yes. :)
I don't like huts as I wrote above. They are crowded, stinky, expensive. They spoil most of the fun of going to the hills, to me. I like to have my intimacy with the environment. And, When I reach the peak and get back home, I find it to be way more valuable than having done the same climb with the help of a hut Carrying all of your stuff, food, and gear, not having any paid help from anybody. That's what I'm about and that's why yes, I will use this thing.

For what matters the bothy... well... I am actually searching for something to sleep into and that is thought for that very purpose. Thanks
jaredj · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 165
Mountain Laurel Designs has two bivies that are nice, an eVent and a superlight one that seems aimed more at thru-hikers using it in concert with a tarp. I have the eVent one, it's nice, light, and none of those doodads that others have (like hoops) that cost weight.

I don't take it out when I expect weather; I use it more to keep my bag dry when sleeping on snow, and don't zip it over my head to avoid pumping tons of condensation into it.
Ashort · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 56
Febs wrote: I do really plan to use this, yes. :) I don't like huts as I wrote above. They are crowded, stinky, expensive. They spoil most of the fun of going to the hills, to me. I like to have my intimacy with the environment. And, When I reach the peak and get back home, I find it to be way more valuable than having done the same climb with the help of a hut Carrying all of your stuff, food, and gear, not having any paid help from anybody. That's what I'm about and that's why yes, I will use this thing. For what matters the bothy... well... I am actually searching for something to sleep into and that is thought for that very purpose. Thanks
Yeah, I get it. That is why I carried all my stuff, camped most nights, but stayed in the occasional hut. I too like to feel the connection with nature. Unfortunately I found the alps to not be very wild or natural.

Take your 1Kg tent and save your money for more trips, that is pretty light for a shelter. That bothy bag thing seems miserable if you were staying out multiple days. If you really want to go light get a tarp, throw in some mosquito netting if you expect it to get buggy.

What is your intended use for the bivy/shelter you seek? What do you want it to do that your tent cannot?
Febs · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 5

Really you don't find the Alps to be "natural"? Well, in some parts they are overcrowded, but in some other, gosh, they are pretty wild.

I am searching for a bivy as a matter of saving space in the pack, weight, and time. Setting up a tent takes some time. Also, you require a suitable spot.
As I was writing above, I feel like a bivy can suit to most narrow spaces.

Other than being a mean to be more in communion with the environment.
This is the idea.

Rob Cotter · · Silverthorne, CO · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 240

I used one twice on the Croz Spur and on Les Droites I was always surprised when I woke up in that thing & was alive. Claustrophobia X 10...

jaredj · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 165

If you want all the comfort features you're listing (the ability to change clothes, some protection from bugs), just lug your tent up with you. A bivy will give you none of that.

Your posts read like someone who has thought a lot about climbing but hasn't done much of it, esp w.r.t. the rigidity you are approaching this topic. Please be careful, success on big stuff isn't like success on little stuff. No offense, and please disregard if inaccurate.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520
jaredj wrote:If you want all the comfort features you're listing (the ability to change clothes, some protection from bugs), just lug your tent up with you. A bivy will give you none of that. Your posts read like someone who has thought a lot about climbing but hasn't done much of it, esp w.r.t. the rigidity you are approaching this topic. Please be careful, success on big stuff isn't like success on little stuff. No offense, and please disregard if inaccurate.
This is a pretty awesome summary. Ha ha ha.
Febs · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 5
jaredj wrote:If you want all the comfort features you're listing (the ability to change clothes, some protection from bugs), just lug your tent up with you. A bivy will give you none of that. Your posts read like someone who has thought a lot about climbing but hasn't done much of it, esp w.r.t. the rigidity you are approaching this topic. Please be careful, success on big stuff isn't like success on little stuff. No offense, and please disregard if inaccurate.
Thanks for your comment.
This is way more related to camping than to climbing in any way, and I started the topic by stating in bold that I never used any bivy so far.
That's why I was asking for suggestions.
In a review of some bag (I don't remember what) the user was happy because the big space allowed him/her to do those basic things inside of the bag in case of emergency.
Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
Febs wrote: In a review of some bag (I don't remember what) the user was happy because the big space allowed him/her to do those basic things inside of the bag in case of emergency.
No such thing as a big space in a bivvy bag, that would be a tent.
Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

I have slept in a bivy sack exactly twice. One time I used the kind with a pole to keep it away from your face. I liked that feature. The other time I just needed protection from hellacious winds in the Virgin River Gorge for one night on a road trip. I own two myself, neither of which I have used. To me they are instruments of the Devil to be used only in the Apocalypse. I used a very nice micro tent in the Wind Rivers that is the bare minimum that I would camp in now. It weighed next to nothing. Go with one of those and you will be infinitely happier.

Clint Helander · · Anchorage, AK · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 612

Here's my take:

I've used bivy bags on everything from El Cap walls to Cascade ridge routes and technical big mountain routes in Alaska.

If you are using a bivy bag, you are using it for one (or both) of two reasons:

-You want something small/lightweight to minimize pack size/weight
-There are not sufficient places on your route to pitch a tent

So therefore...a bivy sack with foot or head poles adds weight and also adds more space in your pack.

There are plenty of lightweight bivy sacks out there that add warmth and protect from wind. Breathability is huge, but I have yet to sleep in a bivy sack that doesn't still leave you feeling slightly clammy.

My two personal favorites are the Black Diamond Winter Bivy (now called the Twilight bivy) and the Ortovox Gemini Single Bivy.

The Black Diamond has silnylon fabric on the bottom so is quite waterproof on the bottom. The top is made of epic fabric which is not waterproof. (It is the same fabric that the BD Firstlight is made out of, and while good in snow, it is not waterproof in rain. If you disagree with me...let me tell you about my recent trip in Alaska's rainy Arrigetch Peaks... It weighs 10 ounces.

The Ortovox Single Bivy is made of waterproof fabric and has other advantages over the BD Winter Bivy. It traps more heat and is therefore significantly warmer than the Winter Bivy. It also is bright red and has HELP written in big letters on the top. You can flip it over to hid this, but it is a nice feature, I picked this up before climbing Mount Hunter's Moonflower Buttress, thinking that should something horrible happen, it would be visible in a possible search and rescue. The Ortovox does not have a zipper, it is a simple tube. It also does not have a full hood closure. However it is exceptionally light and small at only 250 grams (less than 10 ounces! I used this on the Moonflower, bivying at 12,700' with only down pants and no sleeping bag and remained warm enough.

Price online:
BD winter Bivy: $130 gearexpress.com/black-diamo…
Ortovox: $45 store.allspeed.com/ortovox-…

If you're going with another partner and you think you will have room to pitch a small tent, go with the BD First Light. With two people, there will be sufficient room and it will be warm with radiating heat.

BD also makes a winter bivy with a head hoop, that retails for $220 camping.dnkharris.com/Produ…

Otherwise, check out those lightweight bivy bags.

Febs · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 5

Thank you very much for your very detailed and helpful reply, I'll check all of your links throughfully.

Yes, I'm dreaming of biviyng to save weight and space in the pack, and to be quite sure to be able to sleep almost anywhere. But also, for the very sake of sleeping under the stars, and to be stealth. Unfortunately, here, bivying is quite illegal (god knows why, probably because they want you to go to the huts and pay big money to sleep there) so I'd rather search for something dark and with natural colors (grey, brown) rather than a big yelliyng "HELP" sign. This is sad because that feature could come very handy!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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