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Can someone please explain this to me??

Original Post
Ryan Williams · · London (sort of) · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,245
Rock and Ice

So... is there just no possibility of rock climbing in this cave (or other dry-tooling areas)? I mean, doesn't the dry-tooling mess up otherwise good rock? I understand the need to practice dry-tooling and mixed climbing but I don't get climbing a route w/o any ice on it using ice tools. What's the deal?
J. Broussard · · CordryCorner · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 50
Ryan Williams wrote:I mean, doesn't the dry-tooling mess up otherwise good rock?
Even if it is bad rock, how does one justify a style of climbing that is guaranteed to mar the rock?
Kevin O'Connor · · Richmond, VA · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 200

I thought the exact same thing as you did when I saw this. I would like to know what is so wrong with this rock that it cannot be climbed without the use of tools (which I can imagine destroys the rock). Where is the ethic behind dry tooling only?

Austin Baird · · SLC, Utah · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 95
Kevin O'Connor wrote:I thought the exact same thing as you did when I saw this. I would like to know what is so wrong with this rock that it cannot be climbed without the use of tools (which I can imagine destroys the rock). Where is the ethic behind dry tooling only?
My question exactly. Anyone? Bueller?
Phillip Tearse · · Denver, CO · Joined May 2008 · Points: 80

too cold to climb without gloves on?

JPVallone · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 195

Wow, in some of the photos, Rock shoes with Tools, I am so confused?

Matt N · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 415

Let the comments begin:

"Putting the tool in tooling. Shouldn't this be considered aid climbing?"

visualadventures.com/climbi…

Crag Dweller · · New York, NY · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125

it's Ouray.

mr.dobo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 0

Did any of you morons(in a playful friendly tone) think to email Jason and ask him? It's as least as difficult as posting this thread.

Sir Wanksalot · · County Jail · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 10

I was dry tooling this morning when I woke up with morning wood.

jmeizis · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 230

If the rock is similar to everything else in Ouray then it's crappy rock that you wouldn't want to free climb anyways, as are most dry tooling areas. I know the photographer. I'll ask him next time I see him but in my experience I'm going to guess that's the reason people feel free to drytool.

Kevin O'Connor · · Richmond, VA · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 200

So if I am correct they trust the rock enough to bolt it, but not enough to weight it with hands and feet?

Sam Feuerborn · · Carbondale · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 810

also consider the rock type and how it fractures, in my limited experience with dry tooling in Ouray the placements for picks and crampons are far smaller than those used for hand holds and feet, similarly some of the roofs bolted in those pictures in combination with the holds described might make for the first 5.16 so get after it folks i guess.

jmeizis · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 230

It'd be like climbing a road cut. You could do it but why. There's places where there can be bolts placed. I'm sure it's a pain to find them though.

cjdrover · · Watertown, MA · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 355

When did this "dry tooling" grading start? D11 - seriously? What's the difference between dry tooling and crack jumaring with a cam?

Monomaniac · · Morrison, CO · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 17,295
cjdrover wrote: What's the difference between dry tooling and crack jumaring with a cam?
The difference is that crack jumaring is harder!
Monomaniac · · Morrison, CO · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 17,295
jmeizis wrote:It'd be like climbing a road cut. You could do it but why. There's places where there can be bolts placed. I'm sure it's a pain to find them though.
This crag is no more of a road cut than half of the developed cliffs at Rifle. The rock in the photos is certainly good enough to rock climb.
Ryan Williams · · London (sort of) · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,245
mr.dobo wrote:Did any of you morons(in a playful friendly tone) think to email Jason and ask him? It's as least as difficult as posting this thread.
I guess I would have but I thought that I'd get an answer pretty fast. I was kind of surprised to see that so many other people were also confused. I wasn't trying to start a debate or anything, just honestly curious.

If the rock is of shitty quality then why would it be any more fun to climb on w/ tools than w/ your hands? And if the rock is of good quality but the features are too small to be climbed without tools... well, then that just sucks! Someone could climb it...
Tom Hanson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 950

Dry stooling?

a.k.a Shitting all over someone else's area

k. riemondy · · Denver, Co · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 80

For me, I drytool in places like Ouray or Vail, to gain experience and confidence for mixed (ice and rock) routes in committing environments (i.e. RMNP in winter). It is a form of aid, but for me, it is a type of aid that is more physically engaging than dangling in aiders. I do both for different reasons. Try it sometime if you want to understand it.
Drytooling definitely scars the rock, but it is worth noting that most drytooling crags are in places with chossy, dirty, and unattractive rock. The chossy nature of the rock produces many seams, cracks, and features that are amendable to crampons and tools. You could probably free climb in these places, but it rarely occurs, because the rock isn't generally enticing to people looking to put up new areas.
I would think that there is enough rock around to allow people to practice sport, trad, aid, drytooling, or whatever, without overly limiting each user group's experience.

cjdrover · · Watertown, MA · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 355
k. riemondy wrote: For me, I drytool in places like Ouray or Vail, to gain experience and confidence for mixed (ice and rock) routes in committing environments (i.e. RMNP in winter).
Very fair - but do you climb 45 degree overhanging caves in RMNP in winter - wearing rock shoes? Of course not. Anyways mostly agree with you, the mixed lines I've done in NH are all total garbage outside of winter and no one seems to really care. I just don't understand the R&I coverage.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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